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Title: shura ken necessary? [Print this page]

author: MikkyX time: 2015-11-27 16:15:46 Title: shura ken necessary?

My dilemma is this.  I got enough stones to get shura ken.  Now I don't know if I should get him since he will replace my tavern kenpachi fully modded.  Yeah I know immediate reaction of everybody is shura ken is way way way better than tavern kenpachi but these are my doubts that I have.
I use kisuke, shini uruhara main tavern kenpachi and isshin. This is for ES.  Now the thing is I don't have cute orihime.  I'm not sure if I ever gonna get her since I use zangetsu and her buff overwrites zangetsu's.  What I like about kenpachi is that he gives 10% block to assaulters so that really helps a lot.  If I get shura kenpachi, I will no longer get that 10% block so I don't know how I'd do with ES.  Maybe I die faster, or maybe my damage goes up/down, not sure, since don't know how much damage block gave me.  But since it's a fully modded kenpachi, and if I do get shura ken and use him he'll need to be modded first, so I'm not sure.

So, final thoughts, would my damage go up in ES if I use shura ken instead of kenpachi?  Is it better to use shura ken than a fully modded kenpachi who gives 10% block to assaulters?  (For reference, ES level is 149 quincy, 139 shinigamy and 130 arrancar).

author: uwannadonkey time: 2015-11-27 16:21:13

all i know is2 things: block is useless in ES. and growth rate is king in ES

author: Zento-Hazashi time: 2015-11-27 16:23:42

Your damage WILL go up against Tavern Ken + 10% Block, even a fully modded one

Block does normal attack damage (so whatever your attack does without skill and crit)

You won't be dying if you're fighting a lvl 149 ES with 0/3/2 formation, so the 10% block isn't necessary

the stats and growth damage is too high for Tav Ken to beat

Also 10% Block rate you shouldn't depend on as it's only 10%, compared to a consistent 350% Damage from Shura Ken which is 100% going to happen, and yes, the 10% may have proc'd quite the bit, but it's not going to change it as much as Shura Ken will

hopefully this answers all yo' questions ^^

author: theguyinblack time: 2015-11-27 16:25:31

in case if you didn't know, Shura's skill reduces enemy's break defense by 75%, now try to compare it with adding 10% block to assaulters ... see the difference ?
and even if Kenpachi is fully moded, Shura is loads better than him

author: ryujikun18 time: 2015-11-27 17:41:38

i run t1 kisuke and rukia with shura and tavern kenpachi with main's 9th skill i do about 27million damage in es and about 1.4billion damage in ryoka with them untill wave 56 for when i trade tavern ken's gear back to my hollow ichigo and ichigo's aid rate helps out alot

author: MikkyX time: 2015-11-27 19:34:47

uwannadonkey replied at 2015-11-27 16:21
all i know is2 things: block is useless in ES. and growth rate is king in ES

Umm actually block is very good in ES, as far as I know. Because by blocking, you decrease the damage you take plus you return damage, thus damage would increase because of blocking.

author: MikkyX time: 2015-11-27 19:37:38

Zento-Hazashi replied at 2015-11-27 16:23
Your damage WILL go up against Tavern Ken + 10% Block, even a fully modded one

Block does normal at ...

It's just that I thought that the 10% block would help perhaps not only to give more damage but also to last longer in battle, because as the ES level goes up 150+, they'd hit harder. thus blocking, even if it's only 10% could make the difference if I live or die.

author: MikkyX time: 2015-11-27 19:38:35

theguyinblack replied at 2015-11-27 16:25
in case if you didn't know, Shura's skill reduces enemy's break defense by 75%, now try to compare i ...

I know shura's skill reduces brk defense by 75%, but didn't debuffs not work on ES? I think somebody mentioned before in another thread that ES can't get debuffs.

author: uwannadonkey time: 2015-11-27 19:40:23

10% block is like level 7 block stone, and should not outweigh the benefits of a 350% skill rate which happens 100% of the time vs block which happens 10% of the time

author: MikkyX time: 2015-11-27 19:44:26

ryujikun18 replied at 2015-11-27 17:41
i run t1 kisuke and rukia with shura and tavern kenpachi with main's 9th skill i do about 27million ...

I normally use vg at the start.  I run 1-2-2 in ryoka because well as I see it, it doesn't make much of a difference to do more damage, at least not in the early waves, because you only need so much damage to beat a ryoka.  In addition, need to level h.ichigo, because if I leave him be, it gonna be tough to lvl him for his mods.

If I did get shura ken I'd only use him for ES.  For ryoka I'd use isshin and main, run a 1-2-2 all throughout the ryoka, that's what I do because it would make no difference running 3-2, except for wave 56 where I stop one hitting.  with 3-2 I'd probably onehit up to 58, but since the waves go very fast, I don't bother switching.  Plus around wave 61 I need to put vg on.

ES is a different story though, 3-2 all the way to the end.

author: MikkyX time: 2015-11-27 19:48:17

uwannadonkey replied at 2015-11-27 19:40
10% block is like level 7 block stone, and should not outweigh the benefits of a 350% skill rate whi ...

Well I do put some block stones on assaulters. level 3s on main, level 4s on isshin and on my max damage dealer which is kenpachi i put level 6s. So that plus the 10% block to me could make the difference, but since I"m not very good with numbers, I don't know how good this is.

In any case if the time was right and perhaps in a future ubp, I was thinking getting sexy yoroichi, but I don't know how she fares against shura kenpachi. Shura kenpachi would have the advantage, no doubt, but sexy yoroichi gives fury so that's a point for her.

author: Zento-Hazashi time: 2015-11-27 19:54:04

MikkyX replied at 2015-11-28 00:37
It's just that I thought that the 10% block would help perhaps not only to give more damage but al ...

nah not in this situation, you'll be fine ^^

author: MikkyX time: 2015-11-27 19:59:58

Zento-Hazashi replied at 2015-11-27 19:54
nah not in this situation, you'll be fine ^^

Is he close to panthera grimmjow? I got panthera but I never used him as I was lazy to switch gear with him because of spirit blade, though shura ken is but anyways, Got panthera 2 star modded and never used him.

Is shura ken a major upgrade than panthera grimmjow?

Because if there's not much difference then I can save my stones and go for csb aizen though that will take forever. I just got 4k stones.

author: Zento-Hazashi time: 2015-11-27 20:11:17

MikkyX replied at 2015-11-28 00:59
Is he close to panthera grimmjow? I got panthera but I never used him as I was lazy to switch gea ...

Oh deffffoooo Shura Ken, MAJORR difference xD

Everything about Shura Ken > Pant Grimmjow (Though he skills every round as the only difference, it doesn't make up for it), Shura Ken is defo the clear victor ^^

author: MikkyX time: 2015-11-27 20:15:48

Zento-Hazashi replied at 2015-11-27 20:11
Oh deffffoooo Shura Ken, MAJORR difference xD

Everything about Shura Ken > Pant Grimmjow (Though ...

One final thing. His debuff, decreases brk defense by 75% plus i heard people say he good for survivability. Does his debuff work in ES? I'm pretty sure debuffs don't work in ES.

author: KiyokoTama time: 2015-11-27 20:16:21

Zento-Hazashi replied at 2015-11-28 03:11
Oh deffffoooo Shura Ken, MAJORR difference xD

Everything about Shura Ken > Pant Grimmjow (Though ...

What'll be better
Kisuke, Tenjiro, main, Pantera, Shura Ken
or
Kisuke, Rukia, main, Pantera, Shura Ken
more dam with Tenjiro, but with Rukia Kenny can skill each round

author: BlackLusterGod time: 2015-11-27 20:25:11

Note: The author has been banned or deleted.

author: I_MIKE_I time: 2015-11-27 20:29:17

On chinese servers, they got White Ichigo as CSB Partner recently... so I'd recommend saving the stones.

author: Zento-Hazashi time: 2015-11-27 20:40:21

MikkyX replied at 2015-11-28 01:15
One final thing. His debuff, decreases brk defense by 75% plus i heard people say he good for sur ...

It works against anything ^^

author: Zento-Hazashi time: 2015-11-27 20:40:42

BlackLusterGod replied at 2015-11-28 01:25
panthera can skill twice a round with 8th skill

it still won't be enough unfortunately ^^

author: Zento-Hazashi time: 2015-11-27 20:41:30

KiyokoTama replied at 2015-11-28 01:16
What'll be better
Kisuke, Tenjiro, main, Pantera, Shura Ken
or

For PVE correct?

I'd honestly say Rukia ^^

author: MikkyX time: 2015-11-27 22:00:55

I_MIKE_I replied at 2015-11-27 20:29
On chinese servers, they got White Ichigo as CSB Partner recently... so I'd recommend saving the sto ...

Yeah I know, 12k, but it took me forever to get 4k, forever. I started csb when it originally started, in february I think. And up to now, about 10 months or so later I got 4k stones. To get 8k more will take far too long. Especially since I can't go any higher than 15th place, A rank. That's my highest.

author: MikkyX time: 2015-11-27 22:02:36

Zento-Hazashi replied at 2015-11-27 20:40
It works against anything ^^

So does that mean ES brk defense decreases? Didn't know ES could get debuff, at least brk defense debuff from shura ken.

author: I_MIKE_I time: 2015-11-27 22:03:02

MikkyX replied at 2015-11-27 22:00
Yeah I know, 12k, but it took me forever to get 4k, forever. I started csb when it originally sta ...

Do you use the "trick" of registering 1 day later to get more points by moving up trough the lower ranks?

Also, which Zanpakuto do you use?

author: MikkyX time: 2015-11-27 22:03:14

BlackLusterGod replied at 2015-11-27 20:25
panthera can skill twice a round with 8th skill

Don't use 8th skill. I use 9th because I got isshin.

author: @ra5h_V time: 2015-11-27 22:12:31

if i was u would wait for aizen

author: Zento-Hazashi time: 2015-11-27 22:13:23

MikkyX replied at 2015-11-28 03:02
So does that mean ES brk defense decreases? Didn't know ES could get debuff, at least brk defense ...

yup, it's why any people get him for PVE solely, even to spend that 4k tokens on just him ^^ he's a great buy, and that br def is one of the main reasons ^^

author: Amaimoon23 time: 2015-11-27 22:52:13

MikkyX replied at 2015-11-27 19:44
I normally use vg at the start. I run 1-2-2 in ryoka because well as I see it, it doesn't make mu ...

I'd use 1-3-1 in Ryoka tho

author: kosmik time: 2015-11-27 23:25:44

Zento-Hazashi replied at 2015-11-27 22:13
yup, it's why any people get him for PVE solely, even to spend that 4k tokens on just him ^^ he's ...

you've been blocked in ES? dahell. break kinda useless, block adds a little damage, not enough to compare to GR's or dmg output tho, csb for ES, yepyep.

author: Zento-Hazashi time: 2015-11-27 23:34:27

kosmik replied at 2015-11-28 04:25
you've been blocked in ES? dahell. break kinda useless, block adds a little damage, not enough to ...

Oh i've personally been blocked (I don't have CSB), but all my stones are on my main, so yeah, everyone else gets blocked, doesn't matter tho since they don't deal any damage lol

Wuv u Kosmik <3

author: Kosmodestiny time: 2015-11-27 23:44:12

kosmik replied at 2015-11-27 23:25
you've been blocked in ES? dahell. break kinda useless, block adds a little damage, not enough to ...

Lol I mostly have 90% break def on most of my partners specifically for ES and Ryoka. I figured it out one day and our ES at level 150 has about 80% block rate.

author: MikkyX time: 2015-11-28 00:52:18

I_MIKE_I replied at 2015-11-27 22:03
Do you use the "trick" of registering 1 day later to get more points by moving up trough the lower ...

kazeshini and I go to the lowest ranks as possible. I don't register one day later, I register with no formation and usually start at around rank 100ish.

Thing is they're always people, op people at 1st row, so that complicates everything.

author: MikkyX time: 2015-11-28 00:53:20

Zento-Hazashi replied at 2015-11-27 22:13
yup, it's why any people get him for PVE solely, even to spend that 4k tokens on just him ^^ he's ...

Glad to know that brk defense debuff works on ES. So with this I'd block more then.

author: MikkyX time: 2015-11-28 00:54:43

@ra5h_V replied at 2015-11-27 22:12
if i was u would wait for aizen

I really see no use for aizen in my formation. I mean I could replace my shinigami uruhara, but I need him to take out supports. Isshin takes out assaulters, and that's how I win most battles. Aizen as good as he is, I can't find a use for him, especially since his control chance ain't that high.

author: MikkyX time: 2015-11-28 00:57:28

Amaimoon23 replied at 2015-11-27 22:52
I'd use 1-3-1 in Ryoka tho

1-3-1 would be after wave 56ish because before that it wouldn't matter. I use 1-2-2 because I don't got strength stones for a 3rd assaulter, nor gear. Usually I'd just switch vg gear to another assaulter in ES, but with isshin, you might have a point in 1-3-1.

Another reason why I use 1-2-2 is because I use shinigami uruhara a lot, thus if I use 1-3-1, he could get left behind. That's why I use 1-2-2, to level my prime key partners.

author: theguyinblack time: 2015-11-28 04:59:49

MikkyX replied at 2015-11-28 00:38
I know shura's skill reduces brk defense by 75%, but didn't debuffs not work on ES? I think someb ...

both Ryokas and ES are immune to any kind of CC and fury reduction, they are not immune to the other debuffs.

author: MikkyX time: 2015-11-28 13:50:51

theguyinblack replied at 2015-11-28 04:59
both Ryokas and ES are immune to any kind of CC and fury reduction, they are not immune to the oth ...

What's CC?

author: theguyinblack time: 2015-11-28 13:54:59

MikkyX replied at 2015-11-28 18:50
What's CC?

controls : stun, silence, void, fossilize, ... some other kinds that i forgot ... here' a link to all the buffs and debuffs that we have right now
http://bleach-online-user.wikia.com/wiki/Buffs/Debuffs

author: Suzuken time: 2015-11-28 13:56:47

MikkyX replied at 2015-11-28 21:50
What's CC?

CC is basically everything that stops you from attacking

author: theguyinblack time: 2015-11-28 13:58:52

Suzuken replied at 2015-11-28 18:56
CC is basically everything that stops you from attacking

if silenced or disarmed you can still attack

author: Suzuken time: 2015-11-28 14:00:13

theguyinblack replied at 2015-11-28 21:58
if silenced or disarmed you can still attack

you're right

lolz my bad

author: theguyinblack time: 2015-11-28 14:02:18

Suzuken replied at 2015-11-28 19:00
you're right lolz my bad

oh also when chaos-ed, you attack your team with normal att...

author: Suzuken time: 2015-11-28 14:05:44

theguyinblack replied at 2015-11-28 22:02
oh also when chaos-ed, you attack your team with normal att...

Yep, even though when i said you "can't attack" is still true in the case of disarm since disarm you can't attack without 100% fury and silence you can't use your skill attack and chaos you can't attack your opponent ;) but i guess calling it getting controlled by the enemy is more accurate

author: kosmik time: 2015-11-28 14:52:47

Kosmodestiny replied at 2015-11-27 23:44
Lol I mostly have 90% break def on most of my partners specifically for ES and Ryoka. I figured it ...

ahh never noticed @ 150, skip anyways, good to know though; everyone is a lil over 90% break now from bonds.

author: MikkyX time: 2015-11-28 15:35:14

theguyinblack replied at 2015-11-28 13:54
controls : stun, silence, void, fossilize, ... some other kinds that i forgot ... here' a link to ...

Ah, ok. But the brk defensa decrease that shura ken does, actually works for ES then I suppose. So with his skill, does that mean I'd block more?

author: grzesiekgabrile time: 2015-11-28 16:09:56

sry but i need to say this, you question is stupid...
Shura Kend vs full mod Kenpachi... rly
And you worry about 10% block...
1. Shura Ken is beter
2 Grimm is little beter that Kenpachi(bar)
3 if you worry about ryoka will kill you to fast use vanguard...i do this some time ago, when vawe 50 come i change asa for van
4 if you have problem to kill high lvl ryoka use Rukia+Kisuke combo (it is rly easy to have this 2 supp t1 with full mod)
5 Shura Ken skill increse 20fury when he use skill, so with Rukia+Kisuke is chance to use skill all round ( like someone say) and you have Isshin, yes?
any question?

author: theguyinblack time: 2015-11-28 16:12:03

MikkyX replied at 2015-11-28 20:35
Ah, ok. But the brk defensa decrease that shura ken does, actually works for ES then I suppose. ...

yes, assuming ES and Ryokas have about 80% or 90% break def, Shura's skill would help you alot

author: Shadow49999 time: 2015-11-28 16:18:20

uwannadonkey replied at 2015-11-27 19:40
10% block is like level 7 block stone, and should not outweigh the benefits of a 350% skill rate whi ...

level 7 block stone is 9%

author: MikkyX time: 2015-11-28 19:37:03

grzesiekgabrile replied at 2015-11-28 16:09
sry but i need to say this, you question is stupid...
Shura Kend vs full mod Kenpachi... rly
And you ...

I know shura ken is way better.  That is perfectly clear to me.  Only the 10% block was my concern, I don't know how much of a big deal that is.  NOt good with numbers so I don't know.

I don't worry about ryoka killing me fast, I use vanguard, and I do fairly good there.  YOu only need so much damage there to beat them.

  It's the ES that I'm a bit more concerned.  As the levels get higher, they will do more damage to me, thus, I got to find a way to decrease such damage that I receive, and the block might help, but as many are saying, 10% is insignificant.

As for high level ryoka, I really don't have problem with those.  I just wait till they are at a decent hp, and snipe them.  And I did have kisuke,rukia combo with t1, but I decided to switch out rukia because her damage was insignificant, even with fury, plus I had isshin so I didn't need her.

I don't think I'd ever use rukia again.  It's just unecessary as I don't really use her in pvp or in other stuff.  I use shini uruhara  better because if he crits or if kisuke crits, he skills next round.  And I very well use him for pvp.

author: badbone time: 2015-11-29 09:12:28

uwannadonkey replied at 2015-11-27 16:21
all i know is2 things: block is useless in ES. and growth rate is king in ES

useless i do 13m dmg from block and will increase in future is that useless

author: iz4n4minok4mi time: 2015-11-29 09:33:49

Unless you plan to get berserker renji, shura ken from CSB is the way to go. With that 75% decrease of break def, you only need like 30% block on partners to block almost all the time. As ppl said that 10% block is nothing compared to that dmg increase and the debuff not to mention that if you are doing fairly good in ryoka as you say.. you will have that block back in no time with stones.
+ as said above, block is no way near useless in ES, it can add quite a lot of bonus dmg if you block often.
Also I would say that these days even going for csb aizen is pretty much useless with all those OP hikifunes running around, csb ken will be usefull all the time unless you plan to get something better for gold in event. White ichi might be good from csb but again.. with hiki around he will not do much good in pvp because he is slower than hiki and will probably not even get to attack with fury reduction and invincibility from her.

author: uwannadonkey time: 2015-11-29 11:39:41

badbone replied at 2015-11-29 09:12
useless i do 13m dmg from block and will increase in future is that useless

10%? sure.

justifying a partner for 10% when you can get it with stones makes no sense. growth rate, you cant put a stone for

author: badbone time: 2015-11-29 12:26:05

uwannadonkey replied at 2015-11-29 11:39
10%? sure.

justifying a partner for 10% when you can get it with stones makes no sense. growth ra ...

i cant get what are you talking about

author: uwannadonkey time: 2015-11-29 13:31:54

being able to do 350% of your normal dmg every skill isnt something you can enhance and is fully built into the partner. block is just a spirit stone away. therefore, block should NOT be considered a valid argument here as to keep an older, less growth rate partner vs one that does immense dmg

author: MikkyX time: 2015-11-29 16:08:31

iz4n4minok4mi replied at 2015-11-29 09:33
Unless you plan to get berserker renji, shura ken from CSB is the way to go. With that 75% decrease ...

You do have a point there.  I've reached my max block with hollow ichigo.  102% I think, and I'm not sure if I will do evo on him as I've seen it has a bunch of unecessary combo.  Maybe I'll go with noza ken in future but I"m not really sure yet, as I can only reset once and I'm still far from him, probably 6 or 7 months away, I have 750 coupons for his first form still, shin shura ken.  So I could use the rest of block stones to put on my partners to increase their block.

As for block in ES, doing more damage is one part of the equation, but right now my ES is at 151.  And it will only get higher and higher and I fear as that happens I will receive more damage, thus maybe one of my assaulters will die in 6or so rounds, not sure as I always skip but it could happen.  That's why I was a bit concerned in block, so I reduce damage I receive.  But if brk defense works as you all say against ryoka and ES, then I'd need less block stones, so that's a good point there, to consider.

White ichi would be a great addition though I only have 4k stones.  I get around 500 stones every csb, so I'd need approximately 16 more csbs to consider getting white ichigo, that is if my csb doesn't only get stronger.

author: MikkyX time: 2015-11-29 16:11:08

uwannadonkey replied at 2015-11-29 11:39
10%? sure.

justifying a partner for 10% when you can get it with stones makes no sense. growth ra ...

that's 10% on 3 assaulters, but I never really considered how much stones were needed for 10%. Perhaps I should've taken notice of this. YOu do have a valid point there, but since I have an unused panthera grimjow just sitting there with 2 star at level 90, I'd think shura ken was unecessary. Perhaps I should've mentioned this earlier.

author: [email protected] time: 2015-11-30 02:01:38

ryujikun18 replied at 2015-11-27 17:41
i run t1 kisuke and rukia with shura and tavern kenpachi with main's 9th skill i do about 27million ...

not bad ryujikun, i do 33-34 mil in ES with, tavern ken, main, ikaku, kisuke nd kirinji

author: [email protected] time: 2015-11-30 02:16:22

Zento-Hazashi replied at 2015-11-27 20:41
For PVE correct?

I'd honestly say Rukia ^^

you wrong kirinji is far beter zen, i was doing like 27-28 and max 30mil with kisuke, rukia, main, ikaku nd ken. now with kiri i do min 33-34mil

plus i got the second star on kiri today so more dmg

author: MikkyX time: 2015-11-30 03:03:05

[email protected] replied at 2015-11-30 02:16
you wrong kirinji is far beter zen, i was doing like 27-28 and max 30mil with kisuke, rukia, main, ...

So kirinji is a good damage dealer for pve? Hmm didn't know that. I usually went for kisuke, shini uruhara combo because if shini uruhara crits or kisuke crits, shini uruhara would skill again next turn. But if you say kirinji has good damage, then I should consider lvling him up because he's just sitting there at lvl 40.

author: Zento-Hazashi time: 2015-11-30 05:19:41

[email protected] replied at 2015-11-30 07:16
you wrong kirinji is far beter zen, i was doing like 27-28 and max 30mil with kisuke, rukia, main, ...

Its for different setups,his works better without Kirinji, with 2.5Mil BP here, using Kirinji is much worse than using another fury ddealer, so it varies

author: [email protected] time: 2015-11-30 08:44:13

Zento-Hazashi replied at 2015-11-30 05:19
Its for different setups,his works better without Kirinji, with 2.5Mil BP here, using Kirinji is m ...

Different setups?

author: [email protected] time: 2015-11-30 08:54:28

MikkyX replied at 2015-11-30 03:03
So kirinji is a good damage dealer for pve? Hmm didn't know that. I usually went for kisuke, shi ...

oh you use shini. urahara, hmmm then i dont think I ve a say in it. coz i was using tavern rukia until i got kirinji. and had way too less attack value compared to kiri plus the growth rate on rukia is 80% while kiri has 200% and then the hogyoku's too, need to put purple one for rukia while kiri uses single click exchange

so its pretty easy to say that m happy with kiRi against tavern rukia. but in your case, you wont know unless you try it out

author: MikkyX time: 2015-11-30 13:48:55

[email protected] replied at 2015-11-30 08:54
oh you use shini. urahara, hmmm then i dont think I ve a say in it. coz i was using tavern rukia u ...

Yeah, rukia is only good for the fury. Nothing else after that. Her skill and growthrate is extremely low, plus you have to cross your fingers and hope she doesn't get blocked because if she does, she takes some good damage, so she doesn't last long.

author: Zento-Hazashi time: 2015-11-30 13:58:28

[email protected] replied at 2015-11-30 13:44
Different setups?

different formations, different stacked characters etc.

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