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Title: Ywach Theorycrafting [Print this page]

author: Aristeaus time: 2015-12-8 16:21:32 Title: Ywach Theorycrafting

I am starting to think Ywach might actually be worth his pricetag. Assuming you can get him in another event with mods for points ( Probably Anniversary/Christmas ), that is. If he shows up in Ultimate Charge for 60k, then he is absolutely worth it.
A fully stacked Ywach would be a nightmare. Health regain that is out of this world, great defensive growth rates, Senbon for increased Defense, pretty much impossible to CC, and once he gets ignore Invulnerability, you have to kill him Turn 1 BEFORE he attacks. Putting him to 40%, and then letting him attack, won't be enough as he will just heal out of your kill range. Stack Immune on him for added tankiness. Isn't like he is lacking damage.

You can even run Tavern Unohana with him for her on death mod to help ensure he gets to his attack. He is a absurdly good VG killer, with his damage and heal ability.

I suppose the question would be what type of team would you run Ywach with.

Zanpakuto: Senbonzakura

Ichibei ( Defense and heals )
Ywach ( Stacked )
Main
Tavern Unohana ( Because why not )
Tavern Aizen ( Would be interested to see if his T5 Mod works through Invincibility, since it isn't a attack or debuff ).

author: Zento-Hazashi time: 2015-12-8 16:22:34

TL;DR this

gimme Curls

Yhwach is worth it from the 5th mod itself anyways, there's reasons for these prices on the partners ^^

author: Raeace time: 2015-12-8 16:25:23

Wouldn't Hikifune do the job of support, then you could just run 3 2 0 or 2 3 0, at that point you dont need a vg, just get max speed Hiki and max damage Yhwach and you are ready to oneshot enemies.

author: theunknown404 time: 2015-12-8 16:44:05

I was told that when he critical fury regens, it is +75. Add in a Shinso Gin, and he will skill every round.

author: Aristeaus time: 2015-12-8 16:44:33

Raeace replied at 2015-12-8 16:25
Wouldn't Hikifune do the job of support, then you could just run 3 2 0 or 2 3 0, at that point you d ...

Yeah, I mean you would probably still use Hiki, but having a tough VG with a defensive buff is pretty important for anti-kirio tactics.

author: sirnibbles time: 2015-12-8 18:59:20

theunknown404 replied at 2015-12-8 16:44
I was told that when he critical fury regens, it is +75. Add in a Shinso Gin, and he will skill ever ...

it is 75

author: I_MIKE_I time: 2015-12-8 19:27:36

It does make some sense, but tbh, I think he'd still lose to a combo of Hikifune, Oetsu and Tenjiro.

author: Aristeaus time: 2015-12-8 19:29:34

I_MIKE_I replied at 2015-12-8 19:27
It does make some sense, but tbh, I think he'd still lose to a combo of Hikifune, Oetsu and Tenjiro.

Depends. Does Mutilate land on Ywach? Does Ywach's 5th mod shield clear Mutilate/Chaos/Burns? Does Ywach's 3rd Mod heal before the attack, or after? Lots of questions.

author: noctustheking time: 2015-12-8 20:05:00

Aristeaus replied at 2015-12-8 19:29
Depends. Does Mutilate land on Ywach? Does Ywach's 5th mod shield clear Mutilate/Chaos/Burns? Does ...

the only problem is making him faster than a T1 kirio if she skills 1st hes gonna lose fury

author: Aristeaus time: 2015-12-8 20:18:55

noctustheking replied at 2015-12-8 20:05
the only problem is making him faster than a T1 kirio if she skills 1st hes gonna lose fury

I am not sure that matters. You would have to have 3 supporters faster then him ( which can happen, but against a stacked Ywach it is unlikely ), and since he is faster then every assaulter / VG, he will attack and regain a ton of health. Assaulters/VG aren't likely to do a ton of damage to him since his growth rate is off the charts for strength. So now he is Teed up for Turn 2, all your support skills are wasted, you probably still have your VG, and when he skills the fights over basically.

Between his regain ability, stacked WIS/STR/STA/COUNTER, 3 Immune rate 2 piece sets, and a Tavern Unohana death mod, I don't think the low damage supporters are going to be enough to take him.

Granted, it would take a Tier 7 Modded Ywach, but still.

author: uwannadonkey time: 2015-12-8 21:03:26

Edited by uwannadonkey at 2015-12-8 21:13

or you know, wait for the next ichigo version, lol. Getting yhwach to 7 would take well over 1000$ if you add in the cost for buying him, and he wont be the best partner for very long, lol. Hes great, but i dont expect to see very much of him

your same argument of tsi or demon ichigo vs ichibe in price applies here. only heavy spenders will spend here and not care at all that in a month, there will be a better one

author: Aristeaus time: 2015-12-8 21:13:33

uwannadonkey replied at 2015-12-8 21:03
or you know, wait for the next ichigo version, lol. Getting yhwach to 7 would take well over 1000$ ...

Oh it would be absurdly expensive. The only way I would even consider doing it is if it was a event like Aniversary, where you can pick up 2 sets of level 12 stones in addition to his mods, or something like that.

Characters with that level of strength and a unique ability never get overshadowed. Take Mugetsu. He isn't what he used to be, still expensive as fck, but having that 35% support combo rate is still absolutely insane to this day.

Ywach's ability to get 30% of his max health back per attack is NEVER going to be bad. His Shield is also likely extremely good, though we don't have enough information on it yet. He also hits harder then anyone else in the game, and will likely hold that title for at least a year given his price, and how the +100% damage rate buff works.

author: uwannadonkey time: 2015-12-8 21:17:32

Aristeaus replied at 2015-12-8 21:13
Oh it would be absurdly expensive. The only way I would even consider doing it is if it was a even ...

out the box, no mods needed, oetsu tenjiro and hikifune would crush any team with him. tenjiro with speed mod on allies, chaos, ignite, hitting 2. oetsu mutilate, hitting all(mutilate landing on vg or yhwach would be beneficial here), and hikifune fury reduction and hitting the back two rows. A strong as hell hikifune would tear into any yhwach without a nice wisdom set and proper defense. this team of 3 costs like 26k, lol, and many spenders already got it XD

author: Aristeaus time: 2015-12-8 21:29:14

uwannadonkey replied at 2015-12-8 21:17
out the box, no mods needed, oetsu tenjiro and hikifune would crush any team with him. tenjiro wit ...

"Tear into any Ywach without a nice wisdom set and proper defense"

Did you miss the part with the Stacked Ywach comments like every other post? lol.

Even at our level you could stack a Ywach to a 1 Mil health. 120% skills aren't gonna kill him, and hes going to heal up easily, even off a auto attack. If his shield clears out Mutilate ( even if it lands on him ), it would allow him to survive that.

Hell dude, most of my Kirio hits one shot everyones back lines. That is almost exclusively do to people not having any counter stones or Immune stacking. My Kirio would be lucky to hit him for 200k.

author: uwannadonkey time: 2015-12-8 21:38:51

chaos, ignite, mutilate. lots of possibilities out there.
we all know better partners will be coming out.. just a matter of time really until one makes us look at yhwach and think: what a chump

author: Aristeaus time: 2015-12-8 21:55:00

uwannadonkey replied at 2015-12-8 21:38
chaos, ignite, mutilate. lots of possibilities out there.
we all know better partners will be comi ...

By that logic you should never by any partner cause something better will come along "Eventually".

lol

author: theunknown404 time: 2015-12-8 22:02:21

It doesn't seem clear what his shield clears from the text.

author: noctustheking time: 2015-12-8 23:26:41

theunknown404 replied at 2015-12-8 22:02
It doesn't seem clear what his shield clears from the text.

basically when he is attacked he has a 20% chance to get a shield i saw the replay the devs used it it seems to effect your other partners as well.
anywho if a Debuff, chaos DOT etc... lands on ywach during the time he is attacked that 20% chance of getting the shield will instantly remove such debuffs or DOTS etc..

author: I_MIKE_I time: 2015-12-8 23:40:49

Edited by I_MIKE_I at 2015-12-8 23:42

Aristeaus replied at 2015-12-8 19:29
Depends. Does Mutilate land on Ywach? Does Ywach's 5th mod shield clear Mutilate/Chaos/Burns? Does ...

His Shield is quite a mystery to me, the discription got changed quite a lot iirc.

However, the bottom line is, that he's Assault and has "only" 4.2 wisdom growth and no defensive mods, same goes for Evo, so I can't see him becoming able to tank the attacks.

So he's definetely not going to be T1, and to reach a 2nd turn, he'd have to be so stacked that it's quite impossible for any other partner to be still alive for it - meaning he'd also eat the normal attacks.

And now to the biggest flaw: If he get's thrown from T1, a enemy with a non-stacked, non-modded etc. yhwach+oetsu and/or hikifune will laugh at you 24/7 and even more so during PvE.

So, Yhwach - imo - is not a match-deciding char, since he's not immune to fury deduction nor the fastest (or close to).

Sidenote: TSI, Mugetsu and White Ichigo have higher Wisdom and WI even gets +10% def...TSI is faster than Yhwach with his +12% speed mod and his growth on Skill is higher.

Yhwach will surely come for 12k Gold... and personally I'd rather have a Senjumaru for that money..

EDIT: The only think I'd REALLY love to get Yhwach for is Hollow Soul map... but I'm too greedy to spend money for mods, so he wouldn't be that much of a help I guess.

author: Aristeaus time: 2015-12-9 00:24:03

Edited by Aristeaus at 2015-12-9 00:27

I_MIKE_I replied at 2015-12-8 23:40
His Shield is quite a mystery to me, the discription got changed quite a lot iirc.

However, the bo ...

His shield lasts more then a turn. It clears debuffs and prevents debuffs from effecting him. So even if he were say stunned, each attack has a chance of raising shields, unstunning him.

Now, 4.2 Widsom is plenty. He has really high growth rate on stamina, and the current meta is low % skill damage dealers. Having 50% Immune is not unrealistic, combined with stacked wisdom/str/stam/counter, it would be difficult for the supports to deal with him before he attacks. Once he attacks ( which would be before the opponents assaulters, as he is the fastest assaulter in the game ), he will regain 30% of his maximum HP, in addition to any other heal effects ( such as vampirism or revive ).

Assaulters that aren't Kido mains, are not likely to damage him a bunch, as his physical defense is going to be naturally through the roof + Senbonzakura's buff.

You still have your VG, so eating basic attacks is no big deal.

And no, WI, Mugetsu, and TSI are all slower then Ywach. Ywach has a 15% speed bond. He has 20% higher str growth rate then WI, which will provide more physical defense, but most importantly he has a insane heal. If you stacked him to 1 million HP, and he is under 500k, he heals for 300k per attack. That trumps almost any defense mod in the game, as it will by far provide more effective health.

Ywach will never be 12k gold. He will be 60k for a while, and slowly work his way down to Mugetsu range, which is where he rightfully should be. However, he will almost surely be the next Ultimate Charge freebie at 60k gold top up, which makes him very interesting, as you get Ywach, you are likely to get 1st place in Ultimate Charge, and you now have 130k+ gold to spend on his mods ( If they sell his mods in Anniversary, thats 12 level 12 stones + Tier 7 Modded Ywach ).

That amount of Self Heal is nothing to write off. That ability will be extremely powerful for the remainder of the game, and no one else is likely to get that mod, ever. Truthfully, I think Kirio spoiled us badly. We are all extremely jaded now. Had Kirio never happened, we would all be swooning over Ywach. I do think Kirio is still teh bestest, but Ywach is a viable counter if you put the work into him. Whether or not that is a beneficial to all potential strategies or not, is another story.

author: theunknown404 time: 2015-12-9 01:18:50

I_MIKE_I replied at 2015-12-8 23:40
His Shield is quite a mystery to me, the discription got changed quite a lot iirc.

However, the bo ...

This is why I was hoping Senjumaru or whatever partner they come out with next would offer fury deduction immunity. Then you have a bunch of counters for everything. The only thing we can't counter as of yet is the fury deduction.

author: I_MIKE_I time: 2015-12-9 06:00:14

Aristeaus replied at 2015-12-9 00:24
His shield lasts more then a turn. It clears debuffs and prevents debuffs from effecting him. So ev ...

Well, I guess we'll see his price in the future, but for 60k at thanksgiving which gave 60k points to buy the other partners, I can't see him being priced 60k in events like turntable, anniversary etc. at least not in the long run.

He's also just competing with the 12k Reds, not dominating them, like they do say... shinso gin who was previously one of the most interesting sup.

To beat the 12k sups, you'd need FAR better stones/equip, which in turn means you'd also dominate the other guy using the same partners.

And I still have trouble thinking how well the other chars may hold up if you stack on Yhwach.

How would 60k in Ultimate charge guarantee 1st Place if it's for Yhwach? I mean... who says the guy you desperately trying to beat with this isn't just gonna troll you and do the same (unless he already has Yhwach)?

At the bottom line, Yhwach does not decide how the Battle goes, because he's slower than Hikifune/Oetsu and has no Fury Deduction resist. This also means that (if you have it) your Ichibe isn't T1, while your opponent can enjoy a 200% def buff on Assault+Sup.

author: Devvoke2 time: 2015-12-10 02:51:48

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