is mugetsu viable?

MiyamotoHaizaki

Is mugetsu viable at all anymore?

Miken97

MylarHyrule replied at 2017-2-8 18:52
first off, I know that blocks can hit crit and not show up in the bright orange(?) numbers that a  ...

tested it yesterday, my senju was doing more damage with muramasa than with katen (small difference tho and with katen I was doing more damage overall but that beside a topic) but of course I was too dumb to save those BR, good for me that I also asked friend to check it as well (special thanks to chiko)
http://logineu.gogames.me/fightr ... d=58&t=1&lang=en_US void with RJ
http://logineu.gogames.me/fightr ... d=58&t=1&lang=en_US void with Katen
For me it looks like critic doesn't work in void, therefore RJ is obviously better than katen in void, I can't really believe that for someone katen works better, maybe this player you're talking about is lying or made a mistake, for example he compared compared katen's BR in which his partner gets +300% damage from reincarnation's bonus with RJ's BR where he get none. If this is possible could you ask him to post BR of void where katen makes more damage than RJ? Won't believe in this until I see it for my own eyes.

About ES and ryoka, no doubt that he is doing better with katen but question is how much better rewards he gets thanks to this. Assuming that he is in late game and he is hitting later waves of ryoka, katen won't take him that much further since they are getting so much more hp, I mean: I'm getting to 70 wave in ryoka with katen and I suppose that even without katen but instead with for example I should be able to hit 69 wave (I'm not overly sure about it tho) so it would be only 1 wave difference and it wouldn't give that much better rewards.

I'm not sure why you brought comparision between noza's and kukaku's block into this discussion but anyway I can't argue with that.

About seeing benefits of zans, katen will probably show hers benefits faster but saying that it takes 6 to 8 months to see RJ's full benefits is IMO overstatement, ToT starts at lvl 60, csb at 72 and that's like 2 weeks of playing. Void start at lvl 100 and it was for me 1,5-2 months (don't remember that too well). And when I was at that levels I was like vip 4 or 5 so someone who start day1 with 70k top-up should lvl up even faster. So let's say that after 1,5 month he would relatively feel all benefits from RJ and later it would be just increasing difference between katen and RJ. Now, that only my intuition and I may be completly wrong here but I think that next zan won't surpass RJ in void, just my guess tho but if it's correct RJ won't be really outdated since void is really important event for me (I value it more than ES or ryoka ).

big spenders should spend on what will help you now, not half a year from now...

Both will help, just on different fields+ if I could top-up that much at day 1 without hesistation, I would probably be more pvp-oriented  even if it wouldn't give much profits, I just think it's funnier aspect of game considering that other can't overwhelm you just with amount of top-up especially if there are some rivals. If we are talking about big spenders in general ( and not just that one specific case) then mine definition of big spender differs from yours. Anyone who is going after either katen or RJ is considered big spender by me. That doesn't mean tho that he will be able/want to buy both. If that's the case then he should look forward in future and not only on what is right now, you know, just starting to think about what will he use longer and what's better for endgame although in that case best option would be just waiting for new zan.

MylarHyrule

Miken97 replied at 2017-2-8 10:29
say, do you have katen? or do you know anyone who has it? I can assume that answer is "no". My senj ...

first off, I know that blocks can hit crit and not show up in the bright orange(?) numbers that a normal crit does, so it is possible that crit hits there just don't show up as orange, but that is speculation...  I have 2 katens on my server (neither are mine) and one of the owners of her also have RJ...  damage from that person in Void drops with RJ vs Katen,  granted they do not use a vang...  in fact, Katen raises his damage in Ryoka, ES, and Void, noticeably better.  This was my basis that crit hits DO in fact happen in Void as without the crit damage bonus, there is no way that a katen user would/could outdamage a RJ user which is proof in my book that my assumption is correct, this game is just so buggy it wouldn't surprise me in the least that the numbers just plainly didn't change color

as for defense...   blocked hits deal a small fraction of what unblocked hits do (as I'm positive you know and fully understand), you won't be beating Noza's block with Sexy K without a shit load of work,  That being said, I fully understand that Sexy K is for sure tankier than Noza, especially if you are talking about kido defense.  no arguments there   I'm not even close to suggesting that it is impossible to survive hits, or even rounds against the void, I'm just saying that for those starting on a new server, that's a lofty dream and a lot of work, spending $1000 on a zan that you won't see the full benefit from for 6 to 8 months is insane as by then better things will for sure be released...  big spenders should spend on what will help you now, not half a year from now...

Miken97

MylarHyrule replied at 2017-2-8 15:54
you are telling me that crit bonus does not work on void?   like, you are going to stick to that s ...

say, do you have katen? or do you know anyone who has it? I can assume that answer is "no". My senju has almost 105% critic rate and she never had critic in void. Maybe if I exchanged all her mods with critic rate (what I'm not gonna try for obvious reasons) it would be possible but for now void bosses have just too much counter rate. In other words katen's buff doesn't work in void, period. If you want to prove me wrong then post void BR in which someone critics. Until then deal with the fact that RJ stomps katen in void. Even if RJ user won't survive even 1 round burn still will make some damage plus RJ gives better stats than katen. Also noza  can't compete with kukaku when it comes to deffense, add to this RJ's deffense buff and it should become quite clear for you that she can become a lot tankier than your noza and even if she won't survive full round eventually she will be able to survive more attacks what will result in more void bosses attacking, therefore they will be getting more damage from burn. Really dude, if you want to act smartass at least ensure that you're right. Calling statement that katen's buff doesn't work in void dumb, makes you only laughable.

MiyamotoHaizaki

MylarHyrule replied at 2017-2-8 09:54
you are telling me that crit bonus does not work on void?   like, you are going to stick to that s ...

Reading these posts is exciting.

MylarHyrule

Miken97 replied at 2017-2-8 02:00
But burn and deffense boost works while critic doesn't

you are telling me that crit bonus does not work on void?   like, you are going to stick to that statement?   I'll assume for a second that I misunderstood you as that's a dumber statement than "Vang Shinji is better than Demon Ichigo"...  so surely i didn't catch that right

burn does work, but you die first round, and the burn typically doesn't do more than the +180% crit damage does (assuming you have good crit stats on partners, which mine all hover around 75%, so the crit damage would for sure boost me, and lets face it, that's what I'm basing this all off of as that's my experience in the game)

If RJ can help your vang last several rounds, then MAYBE, just MAYBE he can close the gap...  but even you have to admit, you have to have a fucking GRIZZLY vang to stand up to even a full round in VOID, I have a 1M+BP Noza that isn't inflated by anything like excessive hit rate, or speed stones, running Hyorin and the first hit he takes folds him like an old wallet, even if he blocks it...  I fully understand that many people can surely take a round or two and keep going, this just isn't the norm, and even with a top up on this scale would take you months and months (again, probably around the 8 month mark) before you could tank that first round and even hope to start round two, and again, with that 180% crit damage bonus (god help you if you are running B Renji, who's crit damage bonus DOES stack with Katen's on still netting what? 230% critical damage bonus, which does apply to block damage, who if you have an uber tanky vang should be giving out a fair bit of)  while RJ does have some advantages, to say he is better is VERY circumstantial and requires you to be 6M+ total BP or better to acomplish (or at least have a vang much much stronger than this one pictured below)



and again, I don't even get to give a single block hit back...  so to consider someone is to use RJ at a loss until your vang is THAT much stronger than this, from starting in a new server is throwing out the baby with the bath water...  if you started a new server, and make purchases based on what was better by the time you are THAT strong, you'd be insane as clearly, a new, much better zan will have come out by that time...  honestly, in void I don't even use a vang, I pull out full pve as I understand that my whole team dies in one single hit, no blocks allowed for me as even a blocked hit from them kills my hardiest partner, so I treat Void like a "glass cannon event"  you have to hit hard, round one, cause you only get one hit each

MrBerus

same team different zans, no doubt katen is better.
the thing is most ppl seem to think its an insta win if both teams cost around the same, while my point was that rj isnt that bad for pve or chiko and i wouldnt be close in dmg

Miken97

MrBerus replied at 2017-2-8 08:02
but ignite works ans rj defense helps a vang survive multiple rounds in void. katen just does its dm ...

I could have but comparing them in PvE wasn't really my point, also I'm not sure about your and chiko's PvE teams so I prefered to avoid comparing you 2. Of course all depends on team composition but when comparing 2 exactly the same teams then IMO katen is better in PvE regardless and RJ is better in PvP (maybe there are some exeptions but can't think of any atm) and void.

MrBerus

but ignite works ans rj defense helps a vang survive multiple rounds in void. katen just does its dmg and players cant crit void region.
also miken, you could have said from experience that you see high vips, 1 with katen and 1 with ryujin deal very similar damage to ES. It comes down to partner composition, and katen has a nice advantage, but katen isnt that insta win for pve regardless - just like ryujin isnt that insta win for pvp regardless

Miken97

MylarHyrule replied at 2017-2-8 07:33
mutulate does not work in void, period...  if it did, we would kill it in a matter of mins
when it ...

But burn and deffense boost works while critic doesn't