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Title: Zaraki Kenpachi vs. Pantera Grimmjow (PVE) [Print this page]
author: theguyinblack    time: 2015-3-11 13:24:32     Title: Zaraki Kenpachi vs. Pantera Grimmjow (PVE)

Edited by theguyinblack at 2015-3-11 21:14

I've made this thread to hear ur opinions about these two and who's better...
Zaraki Kenpachi (Ghoste blade)
Pantera Grimmjow (Spirit blade)*btw, info about Experience here, it's the same as us...tested...

author: theguyinblack    time: 2015-3-11 13:26:15

Edited by theguyinblack at 2015-3-12 19:16

i just got bored and made some other stuff to compair them .i did all the math for u A******....so Urahara & Rukia att first with T1 furry, that's at least 55 furry at the start + the 9th skill : +15%att. (let's consider that they both naturally have 500K att) fighting a beast or a ryoka is 6 rounds if ur team is faster (PS: every extra fury above 100 is +0.25%att) :
Zaraki (108% dmg +8%att, that's 583.2K att) :
Pantera(120%DMG, that's 600k att) :


author: YagamiLi    time: 2015-3-11 14:23:11

panterra>kenpachi

kenpachi suxxxxxx
author: UnKnOwNHoLlOw    time: 2015-3-11 14:34:33

i think pantera is out of option for you now since youre lvl 81 or 91 i forgot :p
author: theguyinblack    time: 2015-3-11 16:00:11

what i wanna say is : why would ppl invest more for a slightly better results...? they both do almost the same DMG at daily events...   
author: Curls88    time: 2015-3-11 16:10:25

theguyinblack replied at 2015-3-11 15:00
what i wanna say is : why would ppl invest more for a slightly better results...? they both do almos ...

No they don't in ES.. the difference is huge.. unless you mean in ryoka which is still huge for me but other servers might be close because it's about the mob HP.. if you 1 hit him and other guy 1 hit him.. u both done the same dmg.. even tho ur much geared than him.. but in ES it is different story.. you will get tons of silver / exp depends on ur dmg.. I'm already making over 100m silver from ES thanks to that.. some players take off their formation / gear but thats really a big mistake.. the more dmg you do = more silver / exp.
author: chris2802    time: 2015-3-11 16:19:48

Curls88 replied at 2015-3-11 16:10
No they don't in ES.. the difference is huge.. unless you mean in ryoka which is still huge for me ...

so who are you recommending pantera or kenpachi?
author: Curls88    time: 2015-3-11 16:25:37

chris2802 replied at 2015-3-11 15:19
so who are you recommending pantera or kenpachi?

I just clicked randomly at kenpachi.. I'll check the stats you put.. Pantera grimmjow higher strenght (100% fury recover) and combo rate... kenpachi is 300% dmg but has no fury recover which makes pantera better.

I'd say pantera grimmjow is better only cuz of 100% fury recovery or else I would go wit kenpachi
author: Judge_Spawn    time: 2015-3-11 16:33:13

Curls88 replied at 2015-3-11 16:25
I just clicked randomly at kenpachi.. I'll check the stats you put.. Pantera grimmjow higher stren ...

Yup I agree with Curls
Wish boost is the Fury Boost.

Plus he has natural 20% damage rate so really its 220% lol
author: Treason    time: 2015-3-11 17:16:32

What about Ikkaku vs. Pantera. Ikkaku with his 3rd mode for 10% block+ vanguard's gear and Kenpachi with assaulter's gear or Pantera with assaulter's gear and Kenpachi with VG's gear.
author: mansonloo    time: 2015-3-12 04:03:24

Edited by mansonloo at 2015-3-12 04:11
Curls88 replied at 2015-3-11 16:25
I just clicked randomly at kenpachi.. I'll check the stats you put.. Pantera grimmjow higher stren ...

Let's take a step back and analyse this further.
Pantera does 200%, and recovers fury 100. he will skill every round.
Zaraki does 300%, and recovers fury 0. he will skill every other round.

So, taking into assumptions u will be running kisuke/rukia in ES, calculation for damage will be:
Pantera does 400% every 2 rounds - 200% each round
Zaraki does 400% every 2 rounds - 300% 1st round, 100% 2nd round

Based on this, in terms of damage output via skills and fury gain, THEY both do the same damage output %.

Thus, we must look at their talent, initial strength and growth rate per level. Pantera clearly wins as he have a higher initial strength value (+80), growth rate (+0.1 per level) and 20% damage rate increase as talent.

Then we look at skills. Nothing to talk about for Pantera, as his fury gains puts his damage same as Zaraki and Pantera's decrease defense does not work in Evil Spirit. Whereas Zaraki shines a bit here as he provide 10% block to all assaulters, and this may result in your assaulters doing some return damage.

Then we move on to partner mods. Pantera loses as SWP partners can't be modded at this moment.
Zaraki will have +8% attack and +8% damage rate.
And as you level up and your stats grow, those extra attack and damage rate BY PERCENTAGE will definitely win over Pantera's extra 0.1 per level strength growth and talent. So, Zaraki wins this round as well.

My answer is Zaraki will be better compared to Pantera at higher level (maybe around level 110 and above) in PVE Evil Spirit, but if you are thinking about PVP, Pantera would be much better as he has 100 fury gain and decrease enemy's defense.

author: Curls88    time: 2015-3-12 04:07:41

mansonloo replied at 2015-3-12 03:03
Let's take a step back and analyse this further.
Pantera does 200%, and recovers fury 100. he will  ...

Why does the decrese defense doesn't work in ES?
author: mansonloo    time: 2015-3-12 04:24:19

Curls88 replied at 2015-3-12 04:07
Why does the decrese defense doesn't work in ES?

same reason why some negative effects doesnt work in hollow soul. some shits we cant explain.
author: UnKnOwNHoLlOw    time: 2015-3-12 05:43:37     Title: RE: Zaraki Kenpachi vs. Pantera Grimmjow (PVE)

mansonloo replied at 2015-3-12 04:03
Let's take a step back and analyse this further.
Pantera does 200%, and recovers fury 100. he will  ...

Fury over 100 increases damage output so Pantera will skill every round atleast 155 fury ( rukia 30  kisuke 25) or more cause of rukia and kisukes crit fury regen ...... so i think Pantera Grimmy will do more damage....
author: theguyinblack    time: 2015-3-12 07:37:42

Judge_Spawn replied at 2015-3-11 21:33
Yup I agree with Curls
Wish boost is the Fury Boost.

actually it's 200% of 120%.... that's 240%...
author: theguyinblack    time: 2015-3-12 07:42:07

Curls88 replied at 2015-3-12 09:07
Why does the decrese defense doesn't work in ES?

because Beasts (ES) & Ryokas doesn't have any Def....they have huge loads of HP instead ...
author: theguyinblack    time: 2015-3-12 07:42:57

Edited by theguyinblack at 2015-3-12 12:44
mansonloo replied at 2015-3-12 09:03
Let's take a step back and analyse this further.
Pantera does 200%, and recovers fury 100. he will  ...

that's what i'm trying to say... i'll post some detailed stuff later about this..
author: theguyinblack    time: 2015-3-12 14:21:15

Update                  
author: chris2802    time: 2015-3-12 14:58:05

theguyinblack replied at 2015-3-11 13:26
i just got bored and made some other stuff to compair them .i did all the math for u A****** ...

and on top of that pantera has combo rate, and kenpachi doesn't, so some more damage from your main or third partner.
author: Uharakamiko99    time: 2015-3-12 16:33:37

how about Ishida vs Grimmjow can u tell me which one better?
author: theguyinblack    time: 2015-3-12 17:03:10

Uharakamiko99 replied at 2015-3-12 21:33
how about Ishida vs Grimmjow can u tell me which one better?

Ishida of course
author: Uharakamiko99    time: 2015-3-14 10:39:13

can u compare ishida and Grimmjow for me and let me see the state which one better for pve form?
author: theguyinblack    time: 2015-3-14 11:49:01

Uharakamiko99 replied at 2015-3-14 15:39
can u compare ishida and Grimmjow for me and let me see the state which one better for pve form?

i can make a thread about that later
author: madarad    time: 2015-3-19 07:48:34

was up dudes
author: AndriChristopher    time: 2015-3-19 18:06:24

the best patner for pve from tavern is ishida and panthera is shit no need to waste your time on him, just focus to get your csb kenpachi
author: SosaRey    time: 2015-3-23 16:53:52

when you get panthera, doesn't he start at lvl 100? Grimmjow is 65 but isn't panthera 100? For waves that go fast which would be better, zaraki or panthera? I'd like to use panthera but I'm just 82, I can't wait till 100 to get him even worse level him if he starts at 65.  When I get panthera, will my SWP grimmjow change into panthera? So I have to make my regular grimmjow 100 to get panthera? I currently have ikkaku, renji, main, rukia and momo but after 10 mins when ryokas are 115, I have to put vanguard. Is kisuke worth it for 10 mins? Cause I need my vanguard after 10 mins. In my case, what is suggested, panthera or zaraki? Sounds too much to wait from 90 to 100 to get panthers. Also I use 9th skill which is lvl 15.
author: selene0818    time: 2015-3-23 22:09:54

Edited by selene0818 at 2015-3-23 21:16
SosaRey replied at 2015-3-23 15:53
when you get panthera, doesn't he start at lvl 100? Grimmjow is 65 but isn't panthera 100? For waves ...

Your questions are a bit confusing.
1.  To get swp partner you have to be a certain lvl and then to uprade them you have to be another lvl. For example to purchase swp ken I had to be lvl 100, in order for me to upgrade I have to be lvl 120.
2. Whatever your SWP partner lvl is prior to upgrading is the same as what it will be after upgrading.  You do not gain free lvls. At least I didn't notice on my NA acct (pls correct me if I am wrong.)  Also, I believe upgrading is dependent on MC lvl not the swp partner lvl.
3. I'm not address ryoka strategy.  there are a number of threads re: the same.  It is heavily dependent on your playing style, partners, equip, stones....
author: selene0818    time: 2015-3-23 22:17:05

BurakCinar replied at 2015-3-23 21:19
2. yes. when you upgrade swp partner it does NOT gain any lvls, you get first form in the lvl that ...

Thank you for confirming!  Been a while since I did it in NA and wasn't 100% sure I remember right... and I'm a long way from 120
author: BurakCinar    time: 2015-3-23 22:19:42

selene0818 replied at 2015-3-23 22:09
Your questions are a bit confusing.
1.  To get swp partner you have to be a certain lvl and then to ...

2. yes. when you upgrade swp partner it does NOT gain any lvls, you get first form in the lvl that its required to obtain the coupons IE ken coupons= lvl 100.. first form ken comes as lvl 100 and upgraded will stay the same
author: BurakCinar    time: 2015-3-23 22:24:16

selene0818 replied at 2015-3-23 22:17
Thank you for confirming!  Been a while since I did it in NA and wasn't 100% sure I remember right ...

should there be a difference between NA and EU? and ya same here... could only confirm cuz of nel upgrade >.<
author: selene0818    time: 2015-3-23 22:27:19

BurakCinar replied at 2015-3-23 21:24
should there be a difference between NA and EU?  and ya same here... could only confirm cuz of n ...

Nope no difference just on my eu acct only have ken for swp... and haven't been on NA for a long time... month and half I think so I don't recall the specifics as it was more secondary to my EU character
author: BurakCinar    time: 2015-3-23 22:32:15

selene0818 replied at 2015-3-23 22:27
Nope no difference just on my eu acct only have ken for swp... and haven't been on NA for a long t ...

ohhh ok i see, gotcha =)
author: Yalana    time: 2015-3-25 04:19:38

Edited by Yalana at 2015-3-25 04:21

So what is the final answer ?
I think no-one take into account everything : stat grow rate + talent + skill + mod for kenpa.
Does the guyinblack take into account the strengh bonus on kenpa ? I mean, the strengh diff is too huge : 80 is the basic difference, without the talent.
Without mod, panthera grim must be the best. And i'm not sure the level is the same (when is speak about GR to level up one is said level 90 the other at level 100).


With mod ...
Kenpa get +15% strengh, +8% + 8% damage rate. They bonus are multiplied :
15% strength -> increase basic physicial attack before bonus
Is attack is something like (coeff*strengh*(stone strengh bonus + 0.15) + weapon damage)*1.08
Then is damage is attack*dmg rate.
Finally, the attack bonus and damage bonus increase final damage by (1.08*1.08)-1 = 16.64 %.
The attack bonus is also multiplied by the damage bonus from your armor set and zanpakuto.
And the strength bonus is multiplied by your attack bonus AND your damage bonus.

For grim panthera, your strength grow rate is just a little bit better but you get +20% damage rate.

And with skills + rukia + uharare you obtain :
grim = 155% fury each turn -> growth rate is 200% + fury boost of its 120% damage
kenpa = (1 turn with 100 with other one with 300 + 55 extra fury boost) of its 108% damage based on its phys. attack.

So it is a little bit more complicated ... Not sure wich one is finally the best
author: artinfection    time: 2015-3-25 05:22:12

Yalana replied at 2015-3-25 04:19
So what is the final answer ?
I think no-one take into account everything : stat grow rate + talent  ...

You have to take into account Crit rate too ~.~

So if you think about it , average damage increase with Pantera is higher than Kenpachi

Also max damage (favorable crits) is in favor of Grimmjow too (we assume he crits a lot , so we multiply base dmg with 1,8 , crits 4,5 times)

Base damage does not have a huge difference , to make Grimmjow SOOO worth it . But critical rate does
author: SosaRey    time: 2015-3-26 17:08:50

Hmm ok, difficult choice, so I'll assume both are really good.  Though my question, maybe I didn't explain it well.  Let's say I hit level 100, my main is level 100, and I decide I want to get panthera.  My grimmjow is lvl 86.  I get the coupons needed for pantera, reishi and exchange.  What happens next?  Will my lvl 86 grimmjow become a lvl 86 panthera grimmjow?
author: YagamiLi    time: 2015-3-26 18:20:33

Edited by YagamiLi at 2015-3-26 15:25
SosaRey replied at 2015-3-26 14:08
Hmm ok, difficult choice, so I'll assume both are really good.  Though my question, maybe I didn't e ...

ya definetly
just make sure u don't have souls equipped when u upgrade it, else they will disapear
author: theguyinblack    time: 2015-3-27 03:58:05

well after all moded Pantera is even better than moded lv110 Ishida .... and i think we'll be able to mod SWP partners soon... CN already can mod them easily like tavern partners...
author: OManric    time: 2015-3-27 06:58:07

Well if you don't have both rukia and urahara (or other fury partner to spam ken skill), pantera is certainly better
author: SosaRey    time: 2015-3-28 21:29:35

theguyinblack replied at 2015-3-27 03:58
well after all moded Pantera is even better than moded lv110 Ishida .... and i think we'll be able t ...

What's CN?  Are you sure that pantera grimmjow will be able to be modded soon?  If that's so, I'll immediately forfeit in getting Kenpachi, because I already have Ikkaku and go straight for panthera grimmjow.

I'd get Panthera, though I've heard it takes a very long wilhe to go from level 90-100.  I'm just 83 now.  Plus during that time 90-100, I'll have to continue to use grimmjow along with Ikkaku, because getting kenpachi for 90-100 is a waste of reishi.
author: [email protected]    time: 2015-4-7 17:46:27

i think you missed one omportant thing: SWP partners have bugged growth rate, it can say 3.1, but in reality it is 2.5 at best. Take off all equipment and pick em away from formation, then compare.
author: thepoke007    time: 2015-7-12 15:23:56

I'm lvl93, was using grim till lvl90, then switched to zaraki, i know all of u think panthera is way better but think it this way, first u need to be lvl100 to get that upgrade, so waht to do in pve ie es n ryoka during 10 lvls? i made a bet on zaraki and i don't regret it i mean i make more silver know during es my dmg went from 6 to 8mill per attk, and in ryoka i one shot during 30 min now, while before i had to snipe during the last 10 min, zaraki makes me win more silver ie can afford to recruit upgrade reiatsu easily,

Ofc after lvl100 grim take place till lvl110 i guess
author: MylarHyrule    time: 2015-10-23 16:35:38

Edited by MylarHyrule at 2015-10-23 16:39
mansonloo replied at 2015-3-12 04:03
Let's take a step back and analyse this further.
Pantera does 200%, and recovers fury 100. he will  ...


Kenny furys every 3rd round without fury supports,  and with furry supports, grimm furys with 150ish fury every round,  this is not counting any crits...
Kenny:
50 fury base, attack, +50 fury  100%
100 fury,  skill                        300%
0 fury,  attack, +50 fury          100%
50 fury, attack,  +50 fury        100%
100 fury,  skill                        300%
Grim
50 fury, attack,  +50 fury        100%  +20% natural
100 fury,  skill,  +100 fury       200%  +20% natural
100 fury,  skill,  +100 fury       200%  +20% natural
100 fury,  skill,  +100 fury       200%  +20% natural
100 fury,  skill,  +100 fury       200%  +20% natural

plus Grim has better stats all around...

factor into this when grim crits he goes off with 150% fury gaining damage bonus, plus he uses the same weapon as CSB Kenny, so that's already warmed up, lol

IMO it's hard to argue with this one...




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