Lets make Ryuuken good.

Aristeaus

Prelude; I think to much and sometimes that makes me crazy.

I was thinking about this character today. I think he is quite a bit better then people think.

For example, in a 1v1 situation against a Mugetsu, Ryuuken does pretty well. He has some amount of dodge vs almost anyone ( even hit stacked hes likely to be at 10-25% ). He has a self heal, even if it is weak. He hits harder then Mugetsu. He can ignore Mugetsu fury reduction ( Ryuuken crits fury return for days ). He also has enough stamina growth to survive for a while if things go south.

Now, Obviously Mugetsu is a far better character overall. But in a 1v1 vs Mugetsu with all things equal, Ryuuken might be the character I take, and hes certainly the cheapest character to combat Mugetsu. That fact alone probably warrants some attention, right?

So, how do we make Ryuuken shine?

First, I think we have to ditch the whole Nel thing. It's cute when it happens, but if you manage to get a skill off with Nel without her being CC'd or Murked, you probably were going to win that fight anyway. I mean, replace Nel with any other character that has a impact on the fight and it probably achieves more.

A natural pairing with Ryuuken would be Brukia. She goes with everyone, I know, but she eliminates most of the problems Ryuuken might face, and Ryuuken deals with the issues that Brukia has trouble with ( Mainly sticky assaulters ).

From here I am all over the place. I am considering On-Death characters like Tav Byakuya ( 175% to all ), or Barragan ( 25% x 3 to all ) as a throw away skill effect. I am sure some of you are laughing right now. :-P. Realistically, In a easy fight it really doesn't matter who they are. In a hard fight, I would want my other characters to do something... anything, and the chances of them getting murked very early no matter who they are, is pretty high. Shinigami Kensei is probably the epitome of that thought with a 2 round invuln. I even considered Ryuumon Ikkaku, but then I quickly realized that his price is still stupid. Tav Retsuo is another option, healing on death would negate most of the damage put on your important characters, though if Ryuuken dodges like you want him to, the heal is wasted. Still might be a viable emergency option.

Anyway, I would love to hear thoughts on Ryuuken in general, and how you would use him in a team.

Uciffer4

I think him as a good mid game character, but is not end game. I have 200+ hit rate just with ryoka, seteitei atack and stuff. People who beat aizen have 300+ hitrate so they aint missing a single atack even with nel skill.

If u use him you will have to use Nel which it isnt the best support ever and both of them lacks in speed (im always comparing to end game characters).

If i had to use 8000 point in lucky turntable i rather to buy kensei or Brenji because they are endgame partners in pve.

595459354

First, I think we have to ditch the whole Nel thing. It's cute when it happens, but if you manage to get a skill off with Nel without her being CC'd or Murked, you probably were going to win that fight anyway. I mean, replace Nel with any other character that has a impact on the fight and it probably achieves more.

What makes you think that the same situation can't be applied on Ryuuken?

As for his modifications 3/6 are extra dodge... even with evo he'd get around 180%basic dodge.. which isn't 'a lot' for high Vip players, hence you won't see him being used alot. However if you can pair him with nell, his dodge will rise to a point were even High vips might have trouble hitting him.

So for low vips, Ryuuken could be a character worth picking up*.. but for the amount of gold he cost you're better off with other characters. If I'm not mistaken, B.renji cost the same amount of gold and he's so much better: pvp and pve wise.

* He has no Break def, mod so even if you can't be hit there's a possibilty where you can kamikaze yourself on a strong VG (due to block)

TLDR: Not worth the amount of gold

Aristeaus

Uciffer4 replied at 2015-10-11 16:34
I think him as a good mid game character, but is not end game. I have 200+ hit rate just with ryoka, ...

I don't think you know how dodge works.

Every percent over the targets dodge is a percent to hit. You need 100% more hit rate to hit 100% of the time. If Ryuuken has 210% Dodge ( without evo, bonds, nel ), you need 310% Hit Rate to hit him with every hit.

He is not invulnerable. That's the point of this thread. A dead character with stacked hit rate isn't hitting anything. Enter BRukia. Etc, etc. The idea is to try and make him good. :-P

Aristeaus

595459354 replied at 2015-10-11 16:38
What makes you think that the same situation can't be applied on Ryuuken?

As for his modification ...

Ryuuken can get 210% dodge without evo. He is probably the tankiest damage dealer in the game at his core. Mugetsu might have a word with him, but as I described in the original post, he might be the best character against Mugetsu.

Also, he has 30% Break Def on his passive and another 30% on his skill. So... Huh? Rukia eats VG. He bypasses VG. I am confused by your edit.

Let's assume you have to use Ryuuken. How would YOU go about it? That's what we want to get to the heart of!

Uciffer4

Aristeaus replied at 2015-10-11 16:50
I don't think you know how dodge works.

Every percent over the targets dodge is a percent to hit ...

Still, to make Ryuken works you need Nel te hit 1st and i see that a little too much hard. And why to buy ryuken when you could get kensei or renji at the same price?

Aristeaus

Uciffer4 replied at 2015-10-11 16:57
Still, to make Ryuken works you need Nel te hit 1st and i see that a little too much hard. And why ...

I don't think you have to even use Nel.

I am not trying to argue that Kensei or Renji wouldn't be better partners overall. I will, however, argue that Ryuken is better then both of them in the situation I am trying to achieve, which is ideally a team with only 1 person left on it, which will often be the case against a Ryuken + Bankai Rukia team. They will likely stack stones on their best guy, leaving Rukia to do her thing, and Ryuken to clean up shop.

grzesiekgabrile

Ryuken dodge is for nothing, try to fight with enemy who have 3x T1 and you see how he dodge lol
He need to be faster that other this is 1 and sec Nell never will be faster that other supp like CSB Aizen, Ult Aizen
So she may only help with mod when she is dead
Ryuken is usles... In this game speed and T1 is all

595459354

Aristeaus replied at 2015-10-11 22:56
Ryuuken can get 210% dodge without evo. He is probably the tankiest damage dealer in the game at hi ...

Well It isn't that hard to get 300%+hit on your characters --> bye bye use of Ryuuken.
Tanky or not, doesn't matter if you're stunlocked, say hi to Mr.SWP aizen.. which you'll encounter almost always (end-game wise) vs other vips of your calibre.

As for your 1v1.. Mugetsu is faster and has damage/block mods.. and a natural hight str %. Don't forget that  he has some insane bond features (dmg rate/ extra att). Lastly there's tensa zangetsu that gives 100extra crit dmg to him..

Conclusion:: Ryuuk'n would get raped.

If I were to use Ryuuken I'd abuse his dodge talent/modifications. However in the current meta I see no place for him.

Aristeaus

grzesiekgabrile replied at 2015-10-11 17:14
Ryuken dodge is for nothing, try to fight with enemy who have 3x T1 and you see how he dodge lol
He  ...

Them having T1 does not invalidate his dodge. You can dodge skills.

BRukia will have T1. I did mention that. Shes gonna be faster then those characters you mentioned and probably kill them. Ryuuken is there for the long fight/clean up. He isn't there to blow up a team right away. He is never going to do that with 3.3 Agi growth.

I wouldn't use Nel in any situation.