B.RenjiVsShuraken question

SeiryuSky

DeEmEn replied at 2015-12-12 01:44
He is the richest, of course he is the best. I already proved hiki is weaker than shinso in ES, so  ...

you say that ? in fact there is a reason why she is better for him ... his team f***ing skills everyround anyway

#f*** you " Boat With Gold"

DeEmEn

SeiryuSky replied at 2015-12-12 09:09
you say that ? in fact there is a reason why she is better for him ... his team f***ing skills eve ...

I saw his video of how he fights, his team doesnt skill every round.

Aristeaus

[email protected] replied at 2015-12-12 08:21
Motherfucker nobody said drop isshin forever or anything like that. He used a stronger word useles ...

He said drop Isshin from the team. That is the dumbest thing anyone has ever said. Period.

Isshin is a combo rate giver. I don't care about anything else. He makes it so that everyone gets +35% combo rate, which will generate slightly over 1 extra attack, on average, per round on a 3 assaulter team. That is a multiplicative damage increase.

He works the same way Berserk Renji does. Did you think that people swoon over Berserk Renji for his 280% or his 100 fury gain? No. He is great because of his crit damage buff, which like Isshin, is a multiplicative damage increase. The other stuff is good, but its the buff that makes your damage shoot up that much.

He doesn't need any work, at all. He is the third best PvE assaulter in the game ( Behind Berserk Renji, and Kensei ), and he isn't all that far behind Kensei. He is cheaper then Kensei, and you can grab him from Anniversary, which makes him a better value pick up then Kensei ( short of 20k Pyramid top ups ).

The Ideal PvE team is Berserk Renji + Combo Buffer ( Kensei OR Isshin ). Dropping one of them, is just straight up retarded.  

MikkyX

SeiryuSky replied at 2015-12-12 09:06
just for you to know b. renji is better than both of those by miles in pve and better than retsu i ...

And on top of that he's ghost blade.  So that will save a ton of time and make it very much easier to change gear.  

As for better for both, hmm not sure there on hikifune.  Hikifune is really good for same price.  I mean no partner gets close to what she does.  

If they could only lower the price of b.renji I'd get him asap.  If they made him same price as oetsu, I'd get him on the spot.  As would many others, but for his current price, not sure there, not with hikifune who's also same price.

Aristeaus

DeEmEn replied at 2015-12-12 01:44
He is the richest, of course he is the best. I already proved hiki is weaker than shinso in ES, so  ...

Hiki is not weaker then Shinso in ES. Hiki provides a Attack rate buff ( which is better then Damage %, mind you ), and gets multiplied by damage % buffs, Zanpakuto passives, Evo Damage Rate, Gear Damage Rate, etc.

Ignoring all of the complicated math that you probably won't understand to begin with, her skilling 1 time is the equivilent of +250% attack for your team, which is like getting 2.5 extra attacks ( which, again, is actually more then that with multipliers ).

Shinso is a upgraded Tavern Urahara in ES. His attack all, stun, etc, don't do anything in ES. Your statement of saying Shinso is better then Hiki would also apply to Tavern Urahara. Do you think he is better then Hiki? No. Of course not ( At least I hope you aren't actually that dumb ).

Besides that, why would you be arguing Shinso vs Hiki at all? You have at least 2 Supporter slots, you could use both. There are no real clear cut support choices like there are with Assaulters. Even in a support heavy PvE team featuring like Mugetsu for combo, you would still use both Hiki and Shinso.

There is a point where I can see Shinso being better then Hiki, but that is way lower on the totem pole then most of us are. You claim to have similar damage numbers as BWG ( which is bullshit, by the way ), and if that were the case, Hiki would very clearly provide more damage then Shinso would.

MikkyX

Aristeaus replied at 2015-12-12 15:15
He said drop Isshin from the team. That is the dumbest thing anyone has ever said. Period.

Isshin ...

People are also forgetting something.  Evolution and mods too.  My isshin has evolution 11, has like 10 upgraded bonds with soph rangiku so it's all high.  To start again from scratch with say, another partner, would be tough.  

Especially since it took forever to pay for isshin, for those that got him in rent and also to evolve him and bond with soph rangiku for attack boost.

Yet again, b.renji is a beast, so perhaps he'd be perfect with isshin, given the fact, people get him over hikifune.  At least those who barely make it to 12k gold.

Aristeaus

MikkyX replied at 2015-12-12 15:28
People are also forgetting something.  Evolution and mods too.  My isshin has evolution 11, has li ...

Fuck the evolution and mods. Isshin should never be dropped from your PvE team unless you get Kensei, or a new combo rate buffer is introduced.

People are fucking stupid. That is the problem.

I was having a conversation with one of my CSB competition yesterday, and we were talking about Red Hogyoku, and how the speed one would give +55,000 speed at level 50. I indicated that it is 55k speed TIMES speed bonuses. He went on to tell me that Hiki doesn't have any speed bonuses and I was dumb. I declined to inform him about Zanpakutos, or her 2 speed talents. This is a VIP 9 btw. People, are, fucking, stupid.

[email protected]

Aristeaus replied at 2015-12-12 21:15
He said drop Isshin from the team. That is the dumbest thing anyone has ever said. Period.

Isshin ...

Well fuck you cause I don't disagree with you on most of the said (Renji buff and Hiki buff). But i won't let you get away with dumbest thing anyone said when they're still people that come asking ikkaku or tousen for pve and similar stuff. You can't tell me that you wouldn't test stuff first and that you wouldn't kick isshin out if your dps would go down in some equasion. There is a lot of buffs that can be combined, smart ass like you knows that for sure you're just being biased.

Simple math that you used says everything, 35%. Your main doesn't have any combo like the third ass., that's why you can't compare isshin with b.renji when talking about buffs, cause your bound to have 50 60 70 whatever crit rate on your ass. line along with title yadayada. So there b. renji kicks ass. But you can't tell me that with that same renji that skills every time, along with the precious buff, that if you would pimp him with some combo thru stuff if possible (not sure how much he and shura get thru what), that eventually if you could combine 20-30% from both (him and shura ken) and get an extra attack either way, not like with isshin, but an extra attack here and there you wouldn't possibly go up in dps.  with them both furying and over furying with the help of supp. and ken's increase of surviveability

You can't tell me that maybe mugetsu with 25% combo later on that he would give to ass after his talent attack when worked on, and skill that gives supp. combo rate wouldn't possibly do that also (increase dps). You could inform yourself and see what could be done and possibly save yourself some gold and resourses. Maybe you will agree that there is something to what i said maybe you wouldn't I'm just trying to stick up for a guy that probably thought the same but didn't explain nor was given the chance to do so. And please don't call people stupid or retards that are trying argument things not argue with you, that ticks me off. Cheers

Aristeaus

[email protected] replied at 2015-12-12 18:53
Well fuck you cause I don't disagree with you on most of the said (Renji buff and Hiki buff). But i ...

Extraneous combo rate, whether from mod, talent, bonds, or evo, is irrelevant. I didn't bring it up because it doesn't at all matter. Every character is going to have that stuff whether you use a combo rate character or not. I focused purely on the additional combo rate of Isshin, because that's the only factor that matter. Saying that you can get 20-30% combo on characters makes absolutely no sense at all. Isshin gives +35% combo rate, so no matter how much random combo rate you get from random stuff, you are adding +35% ( To each of 3 assaulters ). Again, simple math, what is better, 20% or 55%? A extra attack "here and there" is on average, just from Isshin, slightly over ONE FREE ATTACK per round. That is like having 6 characters. It is a multiplicative damage increase no matter how you slice it. Isshin is infinitely better then Shura Kenpachi, ESPECIALLY with BRenji.

Mugetsu would give a increase in DPS with his combo rate to supporters. However, to maximize this, you need 3 supporters receiving the buffs, which means you cannot use 3 assaulters, which means you have 1 less character blocking for free PvE damage. Additionally, Assaulters do more damage then Supporters do.  If they released another Shinso esque character, having a bunch of combo rated out free fury gain attacks might make it worth while to change the 2-3-0 dynamic, but right now the math is clearly in the favor of 3 assaulters.

As for me calling people stupid, I don't particularly think either of you are stupid. I don't know you. However, what he said, was without a doubt the dumbest thing ever said about this game. It is one thing if people don't know any better, but when someone asks a question in order to get help, and your response is something that will very obviously DECREASE overall damage, I am going to call you out on it. I will call out NNatsu, or BWG, or Kosmo just the same as they have called me out on things.

This forum exists for us to share information. Good information. What pisses me off is when people run around here telling people to do something that is going to hurt them, especially when it involves real life money.

The fact is, it is pretty well established at this point that the best PvE team is Berserk Renji, Kensei or Isshin,  Kirio and X. There is some debate on X being Unohana Kenpachi, or Shinso, or whatever, but the other 3 are facts, not opinions.

Zento-Hazashi

the fuck has this thread become

anyways

B.Renji is better, constant skill, becomes a Noza Ken in a way and buffs himself up after his first skill; his second skill is more dangerous can will happen almost every round (depends if he's T1 or not), and his stats for STR is better, alongside the amount of his he does ^^

worth it? yes, swappable for Shura Ken by a high standard? yes, he's a great buy ^^

Alot of these people might be biased when they test something out, but ugh, just look at partners from an overall and dumbed down point, you should get an answer that way ^^