Does anyone have Isane?

NNatsu

Aristeaus replied at 2016-2-25 00:58
Well, for starters Hikifune doesn't skill every round. She *can* skill every round, while Isane DO ...

Her skilling twice a round doesn't do anything, buffs don't stack so that's literally pointless.
With Senjumaru I have not yet seen Hikifune NOT skill every round, the chances are just so absurdly high that it's much much more likely for her to skill every round than not skill every round.

Aristeaus

NNatsu replied at 2016-2-25 20:32
Her skilling twice a round doesn't do anything, buffs don't stack so that's literally pointless.
W ...

NNatsu, I know you naturally play the protagonist to my antagonist, but slow down and think about it man.

With Senjumaru, her skilling twice per per round would lead to a potential of 2 attacks from Senjumaru, and 2 Attacks from your third Supporter, both of them being buffed by 50%. Hikifune cannot do that. Her highest achievement is doing what Isane does naturally ( skilling once a round ).

Isane buffs -> Senju skills, loses buff -> Uno kenny skills, loses buff -> Combos Isane buffs  again-> Combos Senju, Combos Uno Kenny.

As for your 2nd point, With Senjumaru, 6th mod, 110 set, and level 12 evo, your still only looking at a max of around 70-75% combo rate per supporter. That isn't absurdly high, and while I do concede that is more likely for her to skill every round then not skill every round, you are still looking at something like 25% of the time she is NOT skilling on any particular round. Since there are 5 rounds in ES/Ryoka, she will on average only skill 3.75 times per fight, compared to the average of 8.75 for Isane with same setup.

Even if you ignore the double supporter buffed attack situation ( which you shouldn't ), you are still looking at about 250% more attack bonus ( 200% from her, not including herself, x 1.25 )from Isane then from Hikifune over the course of the fight. Now Hikifune does damage, so she is going to be doing like 580% more damage through her attacks then Isane would do. ( Rounded up to 4 skills at 120% + 100% from basic ).

But when you factor in the double supporter buffed attacks ( Senjumaru and Uno Kenny both skill twice 3.75 times, so 50% x 3.75 will on average do 187.5%. ). Add that 187.5% to the 250% natural bonus, and you get 437.5%. This is still less then the 580% or so Hikifune give naturally, but it is only about 1.5 basic attacks behind.

Then you factor in things like Berserk Renji buffs, which would get multiplied by the attack buff 1.25x more then Hikifune's buff, and it ends up being really close.

Hikifune is probably still ahead of Isane, but it is a lot closer then people think.

NNatsu

Aristeaus replied at 2016-2-25 21:37
NNatsu, I know you naturally play the protagonist to my antagonist, but slow down and think about  ...

It doesn't make sense to spend 30k gold on a partner that isn't as good as a partner most people already own. I do not think that if I replaced my Hikifune with Isane I could hit anywhere near the 350m I hit ES with at the moment, not doing any damage at all is just such a major disadvantage, you also have to factor in the Crit damage that my Zanpakuto and Renji are providing, not to mention my weapon. The damage would fall off an absurd amount, I would have to assume at least 50m per hit, if not more.

Aristeaus

NNatsu replied at 2016-2-25 22:00
It doesn't make sense to spend 30k gold on a partner that isn't as good as a partner most people al ...

You aren't going to fall off that much. But I agree, it certainly doesn't make sense to spend 30k gold on a partner that is probably worse then Hikifune, and at best is marginally better then Hikifune in PvE.

Isane is probably better overall then Hikifune though, and I was just wondering anyone had her yet.

NNatsu

Aristeaus replied at 2016-2-25 22:28
You aren't going to fall off that much. But I agree, it certainly doesn't make sense to spend 30k  ...

I'm gonna have to disagree with you on that, I understand you like bad partners (see Ryuuken) but don't try to push your delusions onto others. Healers are worthless in a meta where everyone one shots eachother and speed = victory.

YagamiLi

NNatsu, I know you naturally play the protagonist to my antagonist, but slow down and think about it man.

gg well played

Aristeaus

NNatsu replied at 2016-2-25 22:32
I'm gonna have to disagree with you on that, I understand you like bad partners (see Ryuuken) but d ...

First of all, I have been pretty clear with my assumptions. There is no delusion. I used the word Probably, and laid out a significant amount of math.

You don't use her for her heals. If she gets to heal that is just a bonus. You use her for her passive mods. I don't think you quite understand how much -30% damage rate is to the enemy team. We have seen massive damage increases because of multiplicative effects, and reducing one of the values, reduces the others as well. She isn't going to be one shot. Her speed doesn't matter. If she keeps yoru team, or hell, your main Damage Dealer, from being one shot, she is doing her job.

The reason I find her interesting is not because of either of these things though(I have Hikifune, and my Senjumaru one shots everyone but Titan). I find her interesting because of the direction the developers are taking in new partners. The tides are turning. It doesn't seem like they want teams to be one shot. Mayuri and now Isane with great passives. If my hunch is correct ( which it very well might not be ) we can expect more defensive type characters in the near future. If that is the case, Isane's value may skyrocket.

Hopefully that clears some things up. I have absolutely no need for Isane, but I am speculating on the future of the game itself and the direction the developers are taking. That being said, I wanted to see if someone has Isane so that I can get a feeling for what her current capabilities are. She may turn out to be another Ryuuken for all I know.

Side note: My interest in Ryuuken was similar speculation. I believe my exact words were if a character were made with a -Hit Rate aura, his stock would rise. Given that Isane was made with a -Damage Rate aura, a far FAR more effective tool, it was a entirely valid speculation. I do not own Ryuuken.

NNatsu

Aristeaus replied at 2016-2-25 22:53
First of all, I have been pretty clear with my assumptions. There is no delusion. I used the word  ...

Combined with 4 more equally defensive partners she MIGHT be useful in PvP, in pve I still believe Hiki paired with Senjumaru is the obvious choice. My Senju deals easily 3m damage to high level supports at the moment, so unless some pretty AMAZINGLY tanky partners come out soon, Isane will be the only one to, if she even can, survive a hit.
Edit: My Hiki does somewhere around 10m damage a turn, that's where I got the 50m damage loss from. Even if you add 50% more attack to one hit it's extremely hard to make up for that seeing how the 50% attack increase only adds 1-2m per turn.

NNatsu

Aristeaus replied at 2016-2-25 22:53
First of all, I have been pretty clear with my assumptions. There is no delusion. I used the word  ...

I'd also like to point out a -30% damage rate does NOT mean 30% less damage, they're talking about the modify %, you will not reduce incoming damage by 1/3.
For example, that loss in damage rate would make my Senjumaru hit for about 100k less.

Aristeaus

Well, your right that -30% damage rate does NOT equal 30% less damage, however you are very, very wrong about the other numbers.

Damage rate is factored in before skill and crit damage. It is one of the reasons Koten is so insanely good ( I also did the math on that, pointing out how it jumps damage so high ).

So if you have 500k attack on Senjumaru, with 50% damage rate, you would do 500k x 1.5 (Damage Rate ) x 1.4 (Skill rate ) x 3.3 ( Crit multi ) = 3.46 Million damage crits.

But, if you reduce damage rate....

500k x 1.2 ( Damage rate ) x 1.4 x 3.3 = 2.77 million damage hits.

The difference is about 750,000 damage.

You are still hitting like a truck, but that is a reduction of 21.6% in total damage.
As for your Hiki math, I cannot do that math without having the stats of all of your supporters. I attempted to, but it was flawed, and I would rather it be realistic.