best vanguard.

wilson1990

Evild4nte replied at 2015-1-26 12:01
1) There will be many pve situations where the aidrate and the recover health on vanguard will be m ...

Yeah but i'm just answering according to the questions she/he asked lol. Since she's/he's asking for the opinion on tavern aizen

Aristeaus

BurakCinar replied at 2015-1-26 12:08
dunno about that. so far kenpachi looks like the best VG  by MILES for us

Shin Shura Kenpachi is garbage. Doesn't do anything.

You can make a argument for Nozarashi Kenpachi, but even then I don't think so.

Part of the strength of a offensive VG is the immense amount of defensive capability. A Hyorinmaru Toshiro can fairly easily eclipse 500k Arena/CSB hp at level 80. Combined with a defense buff from Hyorinmaru and -ATK buff from himself, throw in a Revive, and his effective HP is through the roof. Stark is similar in nature. You don't win fights with a Offensive VG by blowing people out, you win fairly slowly by getting a incremental advantage ( assuming the fight is fairly equal ).

Kenpachi doesn't do this. He hits like a truck on a single target, but has far less survivability then Toshiro or Stark. He does have the best VG modify talent ( chance to stun when attacked ), but Toshiro has it as well and you will get Toshiro's long before you get Kenpachi's.

I am not a fan of Kenpachi VG. If the rest of your team gets wiped, Kenpachi has a rough time soloing. Toshiro and Stark can do it fairly reliably. I haven't seen his growth rates, so maybe it is insane and I am wrong based on that, but you more often then not don't need his skill vs other skills.

BurakCinar

Aristeaus replied at 2015-1-26 15:53
Shin Shura Kenpachi is garbage. Doesn't do anything.

You can make a argument for Nozarashi Kenpac ...

u dont know the power of a offensive vg with a zanpakuto to boost him

KrisKingOfLegend

#StarkTheWorseVanguard!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

watman

All things being equal:
The comparison of Toshiro vs Shin Shura Ken

Toshiro:
Base stats: weaker than Shin Ken's for sure, I remember it not being greater than 400 in each stat.  So I'll safely assume Toshiro's growth rates will be lower as well.

Talent:
Higher Agi
10% dmg rate
10% immune rate

Skill:
150% growth to VG / Assaulters
-25% atk
-25% break def
+25% block


Shin Shura:
Base Stats: Higher than Toshiros

Talent:
Higher Str Bonus (more physical defense)
7% dmg rate
7% immune

Skill:
300% Single Line
Fossilize Enemy VG (unable to do anything?)
+25% damage
+35% crit rate (not sure if chance or damage, probably damage)


Ken will dish out a ton more damage for sure, survivability definitely goes to Toshiro.


So in the scenario that an opponent is of equal power level, it usually means that both your vg's will roughly do... nothing to each other.
I would take Shin Shura Kenpachi in this case, because with 300% growth...  I can probably VG Bust with him.

Even though Toshiro is a terrible VG Buster, sometimes Toshiro can kill my opponents Kido Main because of his skill reaching assaulters.
But against Physical Mains, toshiro usually does nothing to the enemy main.

These two both have their plus and minuses, but once it's Nozarashi...  there's no comparison.
The addition of random silent enemy and random +100 fury to ally...  gg.

Aristeaus

BurakCinar replied at 2015-1-26 17:00
u dont know the power of a offensive vg with a zanpakuto to boost him

You are right. I haven't, on multiple occasions, made claims that Hyorinmaru is the best Zanpakuto in the game. I don't own Hyyorinmaru and have a offensive VG based team. Nooope. Not me.

Aristeaus

watman replied at 2015-1-26 17:12
All things being equal:
The comparison of Toshiro vs Shin Shura Ken

Ken does 300% damage to that tankiest member of their team. Toshiro does 150% on multiple targets, while debuffing. I wouldn't exactly call that more damage then Toshiro.

Base stats are meaningless. Growth rate is the only important thing.

IIRC, Fossilize makes the opponent immune to damage as well. Regardless, it is really hard to VG bust in this game. The idea is to kill a VG as soon as possible, but if you don't manage to do it after your team skills, you just lose. You wasted most, if not all, of your skills and the only damage you did was to the VG. Meanwhile, your team gets eaten by AoE. When it comes down to a VG vs multiple opponents, which does happen quite often, I would rather have Toshiro then Kenpachi.

I would actually make a argument for Sexy Rangiku being the best VG in the game. A Hyorinmaru team should probably be a 3-1-1, and getting Aid + HOT is way more valuable to me. Not to mention the 15% defense talent, which is really good in itself with Hyorinmaru.

KrisKingOfLegend

Aristeaus replied at 2015-1-26 17:44
Ken does 300% damage to that tankiest member of their team. Toshiro does 150% on multiple targets, ...

Finally someone who is smart!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

KrisKingOfLegend

although stark is so damn terrible!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

watman

I have Hyorinmaru, and I still think it's situational between the two.

You have to remember that most of the time you are fighting against a Saijin, with his +35% defense boost:
And that generally renders your damage to <1000; fight is over.  
They might not be able to kill your vg, but your vg wont do anything to the opponents vg.

Shins 300% growth, all things being equal, stand a much higher chance of breaching the opponents VG defense, and actually deal more than 5 dmg.


Maybe I have yet to see the potential of Toshiro against leftovers, albeit having used him for some 20 odd levels, but usually if it's my vg that's left, it means my t1 combo barely scratched the opponents team and I've been severely out classed.
In which case, they are much stronger than I am anyways, and my vg isn't going to do shit other than serve to stay alive for a few turns doing 5 dmg.

On another note:
Is revive a percentage of your damage output?  Or is it a fixed number and variable to the number of opponents you hit?