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Title: Shin nel vs harribel/gin for vip0 [Print this page]

author: TheGoldenFlash time: 2015-9-24 14:11:15 Title: Shin nel vs harribel/gin for vip0

I am going to make supporters based team, bur not sure who is better shin nel(I can't upgr her, because I am vip0) or harribel(later gin)?

author: SosaRey time: 2015-9-24 14:26:09

Gin definately.

author: [email protected] time: 2015-9-25 06:03:01

Get Nel and have a formation like mine.

author: MylarHyrule time: 2015-9-25 10:26:10

VIP0 cannot upgrade nel to her full potential... I'd go with Gin

author: TanakaAiri time: 2015-9-28 13:29:41

MylarHyrule replied at 2015-9-25 10:26
VIP0 cannot upgrade nel to her full potential... I'd go with Gin

True but even if so her full potential revolves around dodge, which becomes pretty useless later endgame with people's high hit rates

author: [email protected] time: 2015-9-29 08:11:49

TanakaAiri replied at 2015-9-28 13:29
True but even if so her full potential revolves around dodge, which becomes pretty useless later e ...

not realy, she reduce hit rate in half so lets say a person hit rate is 300% it will be turned in half and with a vg with 152% dodge (hollow ichigo 4 mod+ ulq from honor shop skill) it becames impossible to hit unless you are t1.

author: TanakaAiri time: 2015-9-29 08:22:26

Well I see where you're coming from and it would be a handy tactic but in most cases , these end game partners, will leave her in the dust in speed comparisons. For her to work she NEEDS to hit before her enemy team does which will turn out to be a harder task to achieve than necessary. So if we're thinking endgame I wouldn't suggest building a strategy around her.

author: [email protected] time: 2015-9-29 10:22:27

TanakaAiri replied at 2015-9-29 08:22
Well I see where you're coming from and it would be a handy tactic but in most cases , these end gam ...

that is indeed true i have sode so i dont have mush problems with this strategy but for someone with out her ye is hard to pull it of. He wants a 1-1-3 formation so i guess Gin is a better opsion not to mention he would have to spend a lot on dodge stones.

author: shadarlo time: 2015-9-29 10:44:50

Nel is better than either IF you upgrade her, if not she's useless.

author: [email protected] time: 2015-9-29 11:06:49

shadarlo replied at 2015-9-29 10:44
Nel is better than either IF you upgrade her, if not she's useless.

if you have a formation focos on dodge even tho upgrate version is still better the normal version is still pretty usefull.

author: shadarlo time: 2015-9-29 12:59:55

[email protected] replied at 2015-9-29 11:06
if you have a formation focos on dodge even tho upgrate version is still better the normal version ...

There's no real way to focus on dodge enough to make it worth it really unless you're fighting other non-VIP people. Against anyone 110+ Nel is crap, her upgraded form has other side benefits on top of the dodge that makes her better at least... plus the added dodge amount makes it work a bit more often even vs VIP's since lots of supporters don't have much hit chance.
That 25% difference between the forms is the difference often in 25 and 50% hit, or 50 and 75% or 75 and 100% which is a dramatic difference in practice.

author: [email protected] time: 2015-9-29 13:12:26

shadarlo replied at 2015-9-29 12:59
There's no real way to focus on dodge enough to make it worth it really unless you're fighting othe ...

1º of the the dif of hit reduction isnt 25% it 15%. 2º the reduction in half it self is realy good you can make your formation focos on dodge having her, ulq from honor shop and ishigo 4 mod. As long you have them t1 and they are faster then your enemy they cant hit you with out being t1.
Like i said upgrated nel is better but just a litle if you have a fomarion base on dodge she is far from being crap.

author: shadarlo time: 2015-9-29 15:11:15

Edited by shadarlo at 2015-9-29 15:14

It's actually 30% difference between the two levels.  15% more -hit% and 15% dodge rate for your own partners.

And no one in their right mind is going to use Ulq from honor shop, he's beyond horrible in every single way.  He's SO slow and has terrible growth rates all around.  He'd never ever in a million years be faster than anyone else's partners.  And on top of it all, he isn't really F2P because no F2P is going to build up enough partner tokens and then waste them on him if they did.

And then Ichigo is just as bad if not worse than Ulq from honor shop.  I can't believe you even suggested him in a serious manner.

You clearly have never been involved in a true PvP fight past lvl 90-100.  The +hit of any decent person's top partner or two will be 190%+.  So even with Nels combined 80% dodge boost and then 75% more dodge from a partner (it can't go over 90 even with nels 15%), that is only 155%.  So they still have a 35%+ chance to hit you.  Then assume many higher VIP's and higher levels will have 220%+ hit (65% hit rate) and its even worse.  Then go and figure you have regular nel, not upgraded and those numbers are terrible...  65% and 95% chance to hit you.

The place Nel comes in handy is to kinda screw up the enemies supporters because they may not have 220%+ hit, they may be only 150-170%.  With upgraded nel this drops the hit chance to closer to 0%, without ugpraded they still are in the 30-40% hit range, which is not good enough.

Then you come to the other end of the spectrum.  Upgraded she gives 25 fury, which means you can EASILY T1 your other partners if she goes first (or 2nd after Isshin for example).  Unupgraded she gives 10 which means a crapload more fury stones needed to T1 each person.

Even upgraded Nel is very situational.  I like her personally because I have Isshin, Sexy and Soph Rang.  I can shut down the enemy assaulters totally, but his supporters can still screw me up if he has Gin/etc.  But upgraded Nel can help disrupt that while providing decent damage to 4 partners and T1'ing my other partners if I decide to remove Sexy Yoru at some point.

author: [email protected] time: 2015-9-29 15:25:15

Edited by [email protected] at 2015-9-29 15:33

shadarlo replied at 2015-9-29 15:11
It's actually 30% difference between the two levels. 15% more -hit% and 15% dodge rate for your own ...

" Ichigo is bad" let me stop you right there vg ichigo is the best vg for F2P people because it isnt as expencive as Stark.
2º i am F2P and have Ulq from Honor Shop and i can tell you he isnt that slow with the mods (i have also Sode as Zan so there is that to). Thx to his furry recovery i can use his skill every turn the vg in all rounds will have 152% dodge.
3º you can make whole team t1 because if you incrise crit on both kisu and Nel they will give 52% furry to the rest of the partners.

You need to have 350% hit because nel reduce hit in half, if you dont have that or above you will not be able to hit.
Like i said the dif is not that big if you have a formation focos on dodge.

author: shadarlo time: 2015-9-30 08:55:44

[email protected] replied at 2015-9-29 15:25
" Ichigo is bad" let me stop you right there vg ichigo is the best vg for F2P people because it isn ...

You don't understand Nels skill. It doesn't reduce hit to half of their current, it subtracts it by 50%.

So if they have 350% hit rate it would reduce it to 300% hit rate, not 175%.

author: Suzuken time: 2015-9-30 09:36:28

WOW ..... what ... the fuck are you guys talking about ........... ???? damn what fury ? what minus half hit rate .. ? -.-

author: [email protected] time: 2015-9-30 09:56:17

Edited by [email protected] at 2015-9-30 10:02

shadarlo replied at 2015-9-30 08:55
You don't understand Nels skill. It doesn't reduce hit to half of their current, it subtracts it b ...

With my current formation it looks like reduce hit in half because people with out t1 cant hit me and they have 200+% hit rate so either way the skill itself is quite useful. And her skill with 90% crit combine with kisu 90% crit it gives t1 to other partners.In conclusion she is a realy good supp if you have a vg with good dodge.

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