Lets make Ryuuken good.

Aristeaus

595459354 replied at 2015-10-11 17:15
Well It isn't that hard to get 300%+hit on your characters --> bye bye use of Ryuuken.
Tanky or no ...

To get 300%+ hit on all of your characters? That's probably harder then you want to admit. Getting 300% on the characters that survive BRukia is probably the more logical argument and I'll assume that is what you meant.

Sure, if anyone is stun locked it doesn't matter. Though the idea is to prevent that. BRukia is gonna to hurt stuff and go before those popular stunners. I also mentioned literally 2 characters for the potential team. Who's to say I am not using SWP Aizen as well? Etc. Etc. We are in this thread to flush the idea out.

Mugetsu is faster, but that is mostly irrelevant. He doesn't do anything to Ryuuken. His form of control is Fury reduction that doesn't work on him ( he has 150 fury always, until the end of time ). Ryuuken and Mugetsu have the same STR %. Not sure why you mentioned block mods cause +60% Break Def, but yes, Mugetsu does have Damage mods. Ryuuken has +50 extra fury every round which equates to 12.5%? Extra damage. He also skills every round, which will make him outdamage Mugetsu.

Not saying he would win. But he puts up a better fight then most, if not all, the other characters in the game, and he is certainly the cheapest option to combat anyone in 1v1.

595459354

Aristeaus replied at 2015-10-11 23:32
To get 300%+ hit on all of your characters? That's probably harder then you want to admit. Getting ...

I'll admit that getting 300%+ is 'though' but it isn't impossible.

Getting 250% on all your characters on the other hand isn't that hard and what was your calculation for this

f Ryuuken has 210% Dodge ( without evo, bonds, nel ), you need 310% Hit Rate to hit him with every hit.

. I don't got the partner but I don't see  him having 210% dodge b4 evo/bond/nell.

Base = 90% + mods (10+20+30) = 150%

Even if he has 300% dodge.. with 250%hit you can still hit him 50% of the times/character.


As for the 300% on Brukia, no idea what you meant with that one.

Who's to say I am not using SWP Aizen as well? Etc. Etc. We are in this thread to flush the idea out.

Well imo he's outshined when placed in the same team with SWP aizen etc. Anyway, there'll always be a better partner than Ryuuuken. You can make him decent though, but not the best.


Lastly:

Mugetsu is faster, but that is mostly irrelevant. He doesn't do anything to Ryuuken.

Boy, you need to redo your math.. Ryuuken phys def isn't comparable to Mugetsu's phys attack. He's gonna outdamage him like no other. As for his speed, you were talking about a 1v1, the person that strikes 1st is most of the times destined to win.

As for the 60%break def, where did that come from? (even if he has that, doesn't matter, can't outdmg mugetsu).

He is certainly the cheapest option to combat anyone in 1v1.

For 1v1's, there's shinigami yoruichi.

ps: I'm gonna leave the topic now, just stated my opinion

Aristeaus

595459354 replied at 2015-10-11 17:46
I'll admit that getting 300%+ is 'though' but it isn't impossible.

Getting 250% on all your charac ...

You are absolutely entitled to your opinion!

I do find it funny that you tell me to check my math when you say that 250% hit rate will hit 300% Dodge 50% of the time. I explained how dodge is calculated earlier. 250% hit rate will hit 300% dodge -150% of the time. Characters start with 100% hit, and 0% dodge. This gives them a 100% chance to hit. If I increase a characters dodge to 99%, your character has a 1% chance to hit.  Essentially, every % above the dodge is your chance to hit. Having even 209% hit rate against 210% dodge means you will NEVER hit the character. 250% hit rate against 210% dodge is a 40% hit rate.

Ryuuken has 60% from Mods, 30% passively, 90% from stones, and 30% from skill. Before evolution. Before bond. Before nel. That is 210%.

When I mentioned Rukia, I was referring to the fact that shes going to skill first in this set up, and before anyone else on the enemy team. This means she is probably going to kill some stuff. Having 300% hit rate on characters she kills won't impact Ryuuken at all, because, well, they would be dead.

Lastly:

I don't think you understand much of anything going on in this thread. Ryuuken has 30% Break def on his PASSIVE. He has another +30% on his SKILL. That is where the +60% Break def came from, and I explained that.

Ryuuken has 190% max crit rate. Even with 90% counter, you are going to get crit every single turn, for a 192.5% skill ( More then Mugetsu's btw ).  He gets the extra 12.5% from having 150 fury constantly, just so we are clear. Mugetsu, at best, will skill once every 3 turns. Mugetsu will do 190+100+100 in that time with a small chance of critting. Ryuuken, will do 192.5+192.5+192.5 with a guaranteed chance of critting each strike. That math isn't hard to figure out.

That's also assuming that Mugetsu never misses.

Mugetsu is CLEARLY the better character. I am not at all arguing that. Ryuuken is a Niche character, and I am trying to figure out where he might fit in.

I don't know if you are trolling me or what. Did you really just say Shinigami Yoruichi when you made the argument that Ryuuken wouldn't be able to damage Mugetsu for anything? lol. You do know Ryuuken has a 4.8 str growth rate and a str passive right? Cause Yoruichi is only 3.5. Her skill modifier doesn't matter that much if there isn't anything there to modify :-P

ajoalex

Aristeaus replied at 2015-10-12 04:09
You are absolutely entitled to your opinion!

I do find it funny that you tell me to check my mat ...

Having even 209% hit rate against 210% dodge means you will NEVER hit the character.

Thats what even i thought, but why does it not work on hma aizen 1v1 for me then, with 280% hit , i can hit him say 1/10 times with my be.renji ie on the first attack . I thought i had to get over 320%[which everyone says] to be able to land a hit. But i get to hit him 1/10 times, how is that being a chance when it clearly has to be a sure thing?

Aristeaus

ajoalex replied at 2015-10-11 19:18
Thats what even i thought, but why does it not work on hma aizen 1v1 for me then, with 280% hit , ...

320% ( I actually believe it is higher, despite what some others have said ) is the rate in which you hit him 100%, or near 100% of the time. I believe it is higher because every battle rep / video with people at 320% they still miss probably 20% of the time when they defeat him. I also don't imagine people did it on the first try.

I would put his dodge ( If it works like players ) at about 250%. 320% hit rate would give you a 70% hit rate, which seems about what is shown. That would put your hit rate at about 30% right now.

Not that I don't believe your 1/10 statement, but that seems really low considering. You would need 360% hit rate for 100% Aizen attacks by your estimation.

Pretty easy way to find out. Go down to 249% and see if you can hit him at all, and work your way up slowly. Time consuming, but you would know exactly what it was.

ajoalex

Aristeaus replied at 2015-10-12 04:30
320% ( I actually believe it is higher, despite what some others have said ) is the rate in which  ...

i tried with 248-252-256% , doesnt land a hit at all. but at 280% he does land a hit, and 1/15 times i can hit him for two times straight without missing a hit on him. yeah maybe he is at 250-260 range then.

Aristeaus

ajoalex replied at 2015-10-11 19:36
i tried with 248-252-256% , doesnt land a hit at all. but at 280% he does land a hit, and 1/15 tim ...

Ironically, the chances of you hitting twice in a row at a 30% hit rate is 9%, which is really close to 1/15 ( 6.67% ).

So its pretty damn close to what I calculated based on watching videos :-P

ajoalex

Aristeaus replied at 2015-10-12 04:43
Ironically, the chances of you hitting twice in a row at a 30% hit rate is 9%, which is really clo ...

hehe not bad

oh btw ryuuken, i really wanted to get him, but 3.3 agi rate is no use against the top players. forget skilling he would atleast be silenced if not killed. so i would say if he gets to skill, then it means say b.rukia or someone else cleared the fast partners and then you just have to clean up. for that even be.renji would do good.

so ryuuken would be good only with b.rukia acc to you?
reg skill on death, i like tav aizen, chance to reduce fury of those heavy fury users. and my fav is tav unohana, that heal !!! she is my current pvp supporter lol

Aristeaus

ajoalex replied at 2015-10-11 19:54
hehe not bad

oh btw ryuuken, i really wanted to get him, but 3.3 agi rate is no use against th ...

That's the problem I think. You basically NEED BRukia to skill first to clear out all that stuff.

Then it basically comes down to who is the better cleanup 1v1 partner. I honestly think Ryuuken is up there.

Though he probably isn't worth the effort. TSI, Mugetsu, even Unohana Kenpachi would be, at worst, just as good, but contribute something to PvE and Hollow. Ryuuken doesn't exactly do that.. :-P

ajoalex

Aristeaus replied at 2015-10-12 05:02
That's the problem I think. You basically NEED BRukia to skill first to clear out all that stuff.  ...

yeah, but then pve say es/ryoka, i wonder if that dodge could actually make him stay for 20 rounds. then that str rate would be too good with that crit rate.