is mugetsu viable?

Miken97

MylarHyrule replied at 2017-2-7 22:42
simply put...  your mistaken on a few points...

RJ can and will make a solid PVP zan with out wit ...

Let's start from the fact that I wasn't refering to MiyamotoHaizaki's plans since I think that he is rushing with his top-up without even understanding the game completly, therefore I didn't wanted to reply to his thread but then I saw your post about katen being better choice than RJ, so I'm simply reffering to your statement that katen will be better choice than RJ. (although it will also apply to what MiyamotoHaizaki should do.)
Now about your arguments (btw can't you start discussion without using ad personam arguments? Well, we are in internet so I should exept it but still it would be nice if you could hold back from it):

RJ can and will make a solid PVP zan with out without a vang, but he is much better with a chunk of a vang out front, any other thought you may have on the situation is just wrong, and kills brain cells...

Please read my post again, I wasn't saying anything about RJ being better without tank or something like that, I just stated that with or without vanguard RJ>katen

RJ is a solid vang for events, any idiot can tell you that, but Katen is better as mutulate doesn't work in events, BUT crit bonus does, thus Katen wins hands down in VOID, Ryoka, and Evil Spirit

Please post video here where someone critics in void, after using katen for more than 6 months I still never saw it while burn and deffense boost from RJ work and therefore top damage dealers in my void are RJ users

As a beast in the middle tier of this game goes (where I consider myself to be) I make 1B+ silver, roughly 20+ level 3 stones, and thousands of souls every single day from Evil Spirit and Ryoka every single day...  you're again an idiot if you are even considering the statement that "with csb update and ToT out, in endgame PvP is IMO as important as PvE"...   

And you think that difference between katen and RJ in PvE is so insanely big? It's not like that with katen you will get 20 more waves in ryoka or so than with RJ, difference will be few waves at most and although it's noticable it won't be so crucial, difference between doing few more waves in ryoka is without doubt less impactful than difference between doing whole csb pyramid and only 1 row

Now, is late game PVP important?   fuck yes, but this guy already has plans for Hasch, Rajin, Yhwach, and Sexy K...  which unless your just an idiot with no idea how to play the game, should easily get you to the top of the pack...  and judging from the way this guy is posting this, it sounds like he's starting on a new server, so you are giving him advice for 8 months from now...   are you really considering nerffing your first 8 months of build up time for a zan that will without a doubt be outdated by the time you would start to benefit from him?

Now, I already stated that I wasn't reffering to MiyamotoHaizaki but let's be honest, with this top-up everyone from his server will be discouraged to play and he should relatively quick hit about 20 wave of ryoka and it will be enough until first merge, after first merge he will be also able to kil ryokas for most of event, same goes to ES, he will discourage everyone and will have ES to himself, after merge he will be still doing good damage, won't be as good as with katen but difference won't be too big either and when he will hit lvl 100 he will feel difference in void and my personal guess is that new zan won't be better than RJ in void just as RJ isn't better than katen in regular PvE, but void is IMO better than ES+ryoka altogether. Also once again read my previous post

What are you talking about? RJ not best choice? EXCLUDING WAITING FOR NEW ZAN, yes he is definietly best choice, no doubt about it.

The fact that in 8 months RJ will be probably countered isn't argument for buying katen, he will benefit from him a lot earlier.

Yes, if you are already level 130+, RJ wins in most cases, but new game, new server, sub level 110, Katen wins, hands down, especially since he already has such an OP team where RJ will ONLY be good for overkill vs foes that he already outclasses insanely bad...

RJ is better both 130+ and sub 110 lvl, and no matter if he has OP team, he will have hard time with lower vips who have RJ just because he will have katen even if in other case he would outclass them badly+ he will be losing in void, gj great tactic.

Also what about ToT? Losing exclusive fragments ( which are IMO most important things to get) every week? Not the best way to start. And getting ultimate sets from csb will allow him to become a lot stronger thanks to faster advancement of eq.

Now that you have been clearly been explained the flaws in your logic, you may thank me, and walk away

I would rather say that you showed flaws in your logic but whatever, have a nice day

MylarHyrule

Miken97 replied at 2017-2-7 17:49
Let's start from the fact that I wasn't refering to MiyamotoHaizaki's plans since I think that he i ...

good luck with your flawed logic...  I know for sure that Katen is better in events, and I strongly feel that PVE > PVP all day long

Miken97

MylarHyrule replied at 2017-2-8 03:13
good luck with your flawed logic...  I know for sure that Katen is better in events, and I strongl ...

If you say so, I wish you could have showed me those flaws, can't see how ES+a little improvement in ryoka> ToT rewards+csb+void. Maybe I could agree with you if katen was better in void, but since she isn't I'm not going to change my opinion that RJ>katen all day long

MylarHyrule

Miken97 replied at 2017-2-8 01:02
If you say so, I wish you could have showed me those flaws, can't see how ES+a little improvement  ...

mutulate does not work in void, period...  if it did, we would kill it in a matter of mins
when it did, wasn't void one shotted?

Miken97

MylarHyrule replied at 2017-2-8 07:33
mutulate does not work in void, period...  if it did, we would kill it in a matter of mins
when it ...

But burn and deffense boost works while critic doesn't

MrBerus

but ignite works ans rj defense helps a vang survive multiple rounds in void. katen just does its dmg and players cant crit void region.
also miken, you could have said from experience that you see high vips, 1 with katen and 1 with ryujin deal very similar damage to ES. It comes down to partner composition, and katen has a nice advantage, but katen isnt that insta win for pve regardless - just like ryujin isnt that insta win for pvp regardless

Miken97

MrBerus replied at 2017-2-8 08:02
but ignite works ans rj defense helps a vang survive multiple rounds in void. katen just does its dm ...

I could have but comparing them in PvE wasn't really my point, also I'm not sure about your and chiko's PvE teams so I prefered to avoid comparing you 2. Of course all depends on team composition but when comparing 2 exactly the same teams then IMO katen is better in PvE regardless and RJ is better in PvP (maybe there are some exeptions but can't think of any atm) and void.

MrBerus

same team different zans, no doubt katen is better.
the thing is most ppl seem to think its an insta win if both teams cost around the same, while my point was that rj isnt that bad for pve or chiko and i wouldnt be close in dmg

MylarHyrule

Miken97 replied at 2017-2-8 02:00
But burn and deffense boost works while critic doesn't

you are telling me that crit bonus does not work on void?   like, you are going to stick to that statement?   I'll assume for a second that I misunderstood you as that's a dumber statement than "Vang Shinji is better than Demon Ichigo"...  so surely i didn't catch that right

burn does work, but you die first round, and the burn typically doesn't do more than the +180% crit damage does (assuming you have good crit stats on partners, which mine all hover around 75%, so the crit damage would for sure boost me, and lets face it, that's what I'm basing this all off of as that's my experience in the game)

If RJ can help your vang last several rounds, then MAYBE, just MAYBE he can close the gap...  but even you have to admit, you have to have a fucking GRIZZLY vang to stand up to even a full round in VOID, I have a 1M+BP Noza that isn't inflated by anything like excessive hit rate, or speed stones, running Hyorin and the first hit he takes folds him like an old wallet, even if he blocks it...  I fully understand that many people can surely take a round or two and keep going, this just isn't the norm, and even with a top up on this scale would take you months and months (again, probably around the 8 month mark) before you could tank that first round and even hope to start round two, and again, with that 180% crit damage bonus (god help you if you are running B Renji, who's crit damage bonus DOES stack with Katen's on still netting what? 230% critical damage bonus, which does apply to block damage, who if you have an uber tanky vang should be giving out a fair bit of)  while RJ does have some advantages, to say he is better is VERY circumstantial and requires you to be 6M+ total BP or better to acomplish (or at least have a vang much much stronger than this one pictured below)



and again, I don't even get to give a single block hit back...  so to consider someone is to use RJ at a loss until your vang is THAT much stronger than this, from starting in a new server is throwing out the baby with the bath water...  if you started a new server, and make purchases based on what was better by the time you are THAT strong, you'd be insane as clearly, a new, much better zan will have come out by that time...  honestly, in void I don't even use a vang, I pull out full pve as I understand that my whole team dies in one single hit, no blocks allowed for me as even a blocked hit from them kills my hardiest partner, so I treat Void like a "glass cannon event"  you have to hit hard, round one, cause you only get one hit each

MiyamotoHaizaki

MylarHyrule replied at 2017-2-8 09:54
you are telling me that crit bonus does not work on void?   like, you are going to stick to that s ...

Reading these posts is exciting.